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Filmspotting Message Boards => Filmspotter Pantheon => Topic started by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 01:44:30 AM

Title: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 01:44:30 AM
Decided to open a new thread for this because the first post in my Results Thread is already crowded. This post will act as a Table of Contents for the final list. Feel free to post comments in the thread.

#50 John Cameron Mitchell
#49 Robert Rodriguez
#48 Ivan Reitman
#47 Zack Snyder
#46 Mel Brooks (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825379#msg825379)
#45 Sergio Leone
#44 Martin McDonagh
#43 Timur Bekmambetov
#42 Danny Boyle
#41 Tom Hooper (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825389#msg825389)
#40 Alex de la Iglesia
#39 Terrence Malick
#38 Leni Riefenstahl
#37 Hou Hsiao-hsien
#36 George Romero (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825409#msg825409)
#35 Edward Yang
#34 Trey Parker
#33 Alejandro Jodorowsky
#32 Guy Ritchie (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825424#msg825424)
#31 Morgan Spurlock
#30 Tobe Hooper
#29 Peter Greenaway
#28 M. Night Shyamalan (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825455#msg825455)
#27 Federico Fellini
#26 Fred Zinnemann
#25 Charlie Chaplin
#24 Leo McCarey (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825461#msg825461)
#23 Irvin Kershner
#22 Apichatpong Weerasethakul
#21 Jean-Pierre Jeunet
#20 Pawel Pawlikowski (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825539#msg825539)
#19 Mark Romanek
#18 Abel Ferrara
#17 Joe and Anthony Russo
#16 Zhangke Jia (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825572#msg825572)
#15 Michael Haneke
#14 Takashi Miike
#13 Kevin Smith (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825621#msg825621)
#12 Terrence Davies
#11 The Duplass Brothers
#10 Ken Burns (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825632#msg825632)
#9 Nobuhiko ‘bayashi
#8 Mel Gibson (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825679#msg825679)
#7 Quentin Tarantino
#6 Andrzej Zulawski (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825689#msg825689)
#5 Jerry Lewis
#4 Stan Brakhage (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825731#msg825731)
#3 Jacques Tati (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825738#msg825738)
#2 Jean-Luc Godard (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825784#msg825784)
#1 Lars Von Trier (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825809#msg825809)
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 10:26:34 AM
(http://imgur.com/pfC5r8o.jpg)
#50 John Cameron Mitchell

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
136.8862.275120

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(http://imgur.com/nQWRMA1.jpg)
#49 Robert Rodriguez

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
185.1492.289545

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(http://imgur.com/RDTGLf7.jpg)
#48 Ivan Reitman

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
194.8532.292590

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(http://imgur.com/BBSAVcw.jpg)
#47 Zack Snyder

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
174.9562.305577

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(http://imgur.com/vLPyMzz.jpg)
#46 Mel Brooks

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
155.3142.307512

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 18, 2016, 12:13:27 PM
Now this will be a really fun list.  Directors of generally good quality but who spurs strong love/hate reactions.  These are the directors that make cinema interesting!
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: colonel_mexico on January 18, 2016, 12:15:12 PM
Some great screenshots here!
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 01:33:39 PM
Now this will be a really fun list.  Directors of generally good quality but who spurs strong love/hate reactions.  These are the directors that make cinema interesting!
Yeah, in many ways this will be the most interesting list.
Something I didn't expect considering the history of the Forum, Christopher Nolan did not make the cut, coming in at #93. He Rated a lot of 6s and 7s, showing that enthusiasm for him has cooled down a bit recently.


Some great screenshots here!
Thanks. With the Top 100 I looked for an image that defines them as filmmakers or is a classic visual contribution to cinema. With this list, I'm looking for an image from one of their less beloved films, perhaps containing a moment that their fans love but detractors hate. Of course I'm the one on the extreme end of some of these.

With John Cameron Mitchell, I knew I wanted to use Hedwig because the director is on camera. However, I wanted a shot that celebrates Hedwig, embraces the divisiveness. Mel Brooks is similar. Men in Tights has fans here, even though it's generally considered one of the bad Mel Brooks films. So I like the defiance of the image.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: PeacefulAnarchy on January 18, 2016, 03:30:41 PM
I think I was a bit too generous in those first few weeks with my ratings. I really like Snyder but a 9 is way too high. 8 or 7.5 is probably more in line with my other ratings. I hate that I never found the time to go back and redo my ratings.

Thanks for all these posts, some interesting surprises (though not in this thread yet).
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 04:30:11 PM
(http://imgur.com/8Gj9uFQ.jpg)
#45 Sergio Leone

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
137.4782.31244

Vote Distribution
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(http://imgur.com/bapOGQl.jpg)
#44 Martin McDonagh

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
146.5802.315195

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(http://imgur.com/BngW069.jpg)
#43 Timur Bekmambetov

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
94.3522.323646

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(http://imgur.com/gjxGcyx.jpg)
#42 Danny Boyle

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
187.0422.32593

Vote Distribution
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(http://imgur.com/igwMVwV.jpg)
#41 Tom Hooper

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
145.5842.342459

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 18, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
I think I was a bit too generous in those first few weeks with my ratings. I really like Snyder but a 9 is way too high. 8 or 7.5 is probably more in line with my other ratings. I hate that I never found the time to go back and redo my ratings.
I think we're all guilty of inconsistency. It seems I was generous with Ivan Reitman (Junior, Evolution) because he made Ghostbusters and Stripes. On the other hand, I Rated Mel Brooks low because of his last five movies, even though he also made Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddles.

That Danny Boyle image is from Sunshine, don't know if people will recognize it. It's a highly-contested point (the killer) from his most loved/hated film.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 19, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
(http://imgur.com/BfG63yb.jpg)
#40 Alex de la Iglesia

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
64.0662.343661

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(http://imgur.com/LZds0zl.jpg)
#39 Terrence Malick

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
218.1622.38010

Vote Distribution
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(http://imgur.com/199wxdx.jpg)
#38 Leni Riefenstahl

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
64.8792.390585

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(http://imgur.com/JKRl6gd.jpg)
#37 Hou Hsiao-hsien

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
146.5222.395207

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(http://imgur.com/NRDwDew.jpg)
#36 George Romero

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
155.9002.398374

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 19, 2016, 04:40:46 PM
(http://imgur.com/wL3owMZ.jpg)
#35 Edward Yang

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
86.2262.401285

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(http://imgur.com/UHLW0FI.jpg)
#34 Trey Parker

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
155.6002.410454

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(http://imgur.com/FLcvcYF.jpg)
#33 Alejandro Jodorowsky

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
85.9182.416370

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(http://imgur.com/v0yz7cZ.jpg)
#32 Guy Ritchie

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
175.26472.418207

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: chardy999 on January 19, 2016, 06:38:03 PM
What kind of sickos are rating Leone so low!

Really like the screenshots.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on January 19, 2016, 06:42:13 PM
Agreed chardy999

I am a little surprised that Alejandro Jodorowsky was not even more divisive.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 19, 2016, 08:32:27 PM
What kind of sickos are rating Leone so low!

My guess is some people find his films too drawn out. (And for the record, Bondo is not the lowest Rating for Leone.)


I am a little surprised that Alejandro Jodorowsky was not even more divisive.
We should revisit this once you see who ranks above him. There are a few I don't agree with, but only one real head-scratcher that sticks way out as a mistake. (Look for it at #17)
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 20, 2016, 08:37:10 AM
(http://imgur.com/jsTJGzO.jpg)
#31 Morgan Spurlock

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
104.8552.424588

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(http://imgur.com/7OSXjMh.jpg)
#30 Tobe Hooper

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
125.4652.442483

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(http://imgur.com/qAjVYRv.jpg)
#29 Peter Greenaway

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
126.4302.443234

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(http://imgur.com/uWXAssT.jpg)
#28 M. Night Shyamalan

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
175.1472.450510

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 20, 2016, 02:01:55 PM
(http://imgur.com/2GwxOsJ.jpg)
#27 Federico Fellini

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
136.0762.454326

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(http://imgur.com/NUiEbdu.jpg)
#26 Fred Zinnemann

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
106.2902.473273

Vote Distribution
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(http://imgur.com/UeZR0E0.jpg)
#25 Charlie Chaplin

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
146.4272.479235

Vote Distribution
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(http://imgur.com/DGxwwvG.jpg)
#24 Leo McCarey

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
125.7082.489428

Vote Distribution
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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Junior on January 20, 2016, 02:18:01 PM
Chaplin a 2? And I was the only 10? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Teproc on January 20, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
I was a bit surprised Chaplin didn't show up at all in the top 100, now I see why I guess. Surprising, wonder who that is and what they dislike so much about him ?
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: philip918 on January 20, 2016, 02:44:04 PM
Chaplin a 2? And I was the only 10? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

That moment you realize you've been interacting with monsters for years.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 20, 2016, 03:13:01 PM
This was a strange group for me too. I don't like Fellini, but I Rated him a 4. The other 3 are above a 7. I tried to figure out why these filmmakers have detractors. My initial thought with Zinnemann was A Man For All Seasons, but then I remembered High Noon, which Western purists tend to dump on.

When I saw the 10 for Chaplin, I just assumed it was Oldkid. I rated him 7.4 myself, mainly because I've seen too much of him and I think he has a number of 2nd tier works - King of New York - that get more attention than they deserve. He has a number of gems, but is a director like Fellini where people see his name and automatically reward it with Greatness.

My initial thought on low Ratings for Leo McCarey was his connection to The Marx Bros. (though he only did one of them). I know some people don't like Make Way For Tomorrow, but it should be balanced by those who love it. Going My Way, considered one of the least deserving Best Picture winners, became my best theory.

FYI, the person who Rated Chaplin 2 also rated McCarey a 2.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: MartinTeller on January 20, 2016, 03:18:57 PM
I don't like Chaplin, but I don't think I gave him a 2. I might be the 4?
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: valmz on January 20, 2016, 04:34:49 PM
The Awful Truth is that I gave McCarey and Chaplin a 2. Jodorowsky suffered the same fate, poor guy. Greenaway got a 10 without hesitation, though, so I contributed to both ends of these tug of wars.

If I were to see more Chaplin films, I'm confident I could come to understand his work enough to give him a 1, but I haven't yet found the enthusiasm. He's not my cup of tea, c'est la vie. L'important c'est d'aimer.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: philip918 on January 20, 2016, 05:01:00 PM
I think I'd bump just about every director up a point if I'd voted. I'm generous with 9's and 10's.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: chardy999 on January 20, 2016, 05:14:36 PM
Fellini is understandably divisive. I think I gave that 9 but I can see how people just say 'no' to him. That said, I would have thought his average score would be significantly better than 6.076 for 326th :(
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 20, 2016, 08:08:15 PM
Fellini is understandably divisive. I think I gave that 9 but I can see how people just say 'no' to him. That said, I would have thought his average score would be significantly better than 6.076 for 326th :(

I'm waiting for Bondo to take his bow for this one. Without his vote, Fellini would've easily been in the upper 200s.


With so many directors, the Scoring in the middle is incredibly close.
#474 Victor Fleming - 5.509
#349 Ken Russell - 6.005
#215 Jim Jarmusch - 6.507


NOTE: I'm traveling to Baton Rouge tomorrow through Sunday, so the Results won't be coming in as regular as they have been.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 20, 2016, 10:15:36 PM
I'm pretty sure I gave Chaplin an 8.5.  He's a favorite, but I've seen so much of his work now that I see some clear weaknesses in his work.  Still, his finest work is fantastic. 
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: philip918 on January 21, 2016, 12:25:32 AM
I'm pretty sure I gave Chaplin an 8.5.  He's a favorite, but I've seen so much of his work now that I see some clear weaknesses in his work.  Still, his finest work is fantastic.

I missed the voting phase, so I'm curious if directors simply got ratings or all their films were rated and then compiled into the director rating?

For example, I thought George Lucas's rating seemed to be severely damaged by his later work, while Coppola's later work must not have factored into his rating.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Bondo on January 21, 2016, 01:09:43 AM
Fellini is understandably divisive. I think I gave that 9 but I can see how people just say 'no' to him. That said, I would have thought his average score would be significantly better than 6.076 for 326th :(

I'm waiting for Bondo to take his bow for this one. Without his vote, Fellini would've easily been in the upper 200s.

I'm sure it is all a subconscious hatred of Italians for how fat their pizza and pasta and salami sandwiches have made me.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 01:15:05 AM
Directors simply got ratings.

You make an interesting point. It seems no matter how low Coppola sinks, you can't take away Godfather, Godfather II, The Conversation and Apocalypse Now. If Lucas is being punished for the Star Wars prequels, why isn't Coppola downgraded for Jack, Twixt, One From the Heart, Youth Without Youth, Gardens of Stone etc.? I Rated Coppola a 6 and Lucas a 7, and I'm the only person to rate Lucas higher. (PeacefulAnarchy rated them both as equals.), so I'm interested in reading some response to this.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: goodguy on January 21, 2016, 01:38:28 AM
I like Coppola's later work. (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=3353.msg745906#msg745906) Not sure how I rated him, probably 7.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on January 21, 2016, 03:06:29 AM
The Awful Truth is that I gave McCarey and Chaplin a 2. Jodorowsky suffered the same fate, poor guy. Greenaway got a 10 without hesitation, though, so I contributed to both ends of these tug of wars.

Interesting I would think some who likes Greenaway would like Jodorowsky as well. Well that was my immediate thought, but when I think further, Jodorowsky presents strange content, Greenaway presents content strangely (yes a gross over-simplification) so quite different.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 09:22:49 AM
(http://imgur.com/R56x2qL.jpg)(http://imgur.com/OracePn.jpg)
#23 Irvin Kershner

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
75.0452.497561

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(http://imgur.com/VbSbgLE.jpg)
#22 Apichatpong Weerasethakul

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
146.0642.499330

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(http://imgur.com/CQSJ5Hj.jpg)
#21 Jean-Pierre Jeunet

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
156.1182.501314

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(http://imgur.com/l61XYaK.jpg)
#20 Pawel Pawlikowski

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
86.1642.515303

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 09:26:17 AM
Pawel Pawlikowski is the only Director in the Top 50 I didn't rate. I've seen Ida, but that's not enough to understand why such extreme reactions.

Pretty screenshot though.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: MartinTeller on January 21, 2016, 10:04:25 AM
You make an interesting point. It seems no matter how low Coppola sinks, you can't take away Godfather, Godfather II, The Conversation and Apocalypse Now. If Lucas is being punished for the Star Wars prequels, why isn't Coppola downgraded for Jack, Twixt, One From the Heart, Youth Without Youth, Gardens of Stone etc.? I Rated Coppola a 6 and Lucas a 7, and I'm the only person to rate Lucas higher. (PeacefulAnarchy rated them both as equals.), so I'm interested in reading some response to this.

1) Coppola's highs are much higher, and more numerous.
2) Coppola's lows are probably not as widely seen as Lucas's. Except for the beginning of One from the Heart, I've seen none of the films you listed.
3) The SW prequels feel like both cynical cash grabs and the work of an undertalented manchild who desperately needs someone to tell him "no". Godfather III is flawed, but Phantom Menace is downright annoying.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: colonel_mexico on January 21, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
Oh man GODFATHER III is flawed?  That film is one of the worst acting jobs of Pacino, Andy Garcia, and Sofia Coppola is probably the worst performance of terrible performances ever.  The story line jumped the shark so badly it's like a mini series whose writers all quit and some hacks came in and ruined the show.  PHANTOM MENACE may have some issues, but Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jinn, the return of Star Wars and the new visual tech, a great score by John Williams and one of the best lightsaber battles of the entire series hardly makes it annoying, maybe flawed, but definitely not worse than GODFATHER III. 
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Junior on January 21, 2016, 10:43:48 AM
I generally just went with a 10 if they had a movie in my top 100, sometimes bumped down a notch if they had many bad movies that I had seen.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: MartinTeller on January 21, 2016, 11:00:00 AM
Oh man GODFATHER III is flawed?  That film is one of the worst acting jobs of Pacino, Andy Garcia, and Sofia Coppola is probably the worst performance of terrible performances ever.  The story line jumped the shark so badly it's like a mini series whose writers all quit and some hacks came in and ruined the show.

I can't disagree with any of this, though I do think GF3's boring, convoluted Vatican story is slightly more interesting than TPM's boring, convoluted trade embargo story. And I'll take Sofia Coppola over Jake Lloyd or Jar-Jar Binks any day.

Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jinn,

Yes, Liam Neeson plays Qui Gon Jinn. And? Bland actor, bland character.

the return of Star Wars

I could just as easily say "the return of Godfather". Just because something's returning doesn't mean it's gonna be good.

and the new visual tech,

...which doesn't look that good

a great score by John Williams


Can't say I remember any of the score except the classic SW themes.

and one of the best lightsaber battles of the entire series

Hate it. Hate the double-ended lightsaber, and I especially hate Darth Maul (worst character name second only to "General Grievous"). Hey, he's got horns poking out of his face and yellow eyes, I bet he's pretty evil! Goddamn you, Lucas.

maybe flawed, but definitely not worse than GODFATHER III.

A matter of opinion. I would guess that most people view TPM with more contempt than GF3. But maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 11:08:39 AM
Martin, I was reading your reviews of George Lucas films and noticed there isn't one for American Grafitti. You've seen it, right?

Lucas and Coppola both brought striking new visions to cinema. Both have scored massive success, the kind of disaster that comes with experimentation, and some hack work in terms of story and character. It's an interesting comparison but I feel like Coppola gave up at some point while Lucas only quit telling a solid story.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Bondo on January 21, 2016, 11:11:16 AM
I must have rated Coppola higher than Lucas, but I'd rewatch any of the Star Wars prequels before I'd rewatch Godfather II.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: colonel_mexico on January 21, 2016, 11:11:39 AM
I have a serious personal bias for Neeson, I enjoy his ever-constant stream of Taken-like films, NON-STOP, A WALK AMONG THE TOMBSTONES (a real favorite of late of mine) etc, that I could never consider him bland at all.  Duel of Fates is the only Williams score that I remember the name of from any of the SW films.  Wow about the lightsaber battle, I mean yellow eyes were the color of the emperor's eyes, the color Anakin's eyes turned in Ep3, I think it's symbolic.  The horns I assumed were part of the species, I've seen good guys of that species in Knights of the Old Republic. 

This is all matter of opinion, but as a film the acting and story is so bad and bloated in GODFATHER 3 c'mon I love a good gangster film and the other GODFATHERS I watch a hundred times consecutively without lessening my appreciation, but that 3rd installment is a bore and an embarrassment.  EP1 has a pod race!  Lol.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 11:57:24 AM
Lucas's legacy is far vaster. He is a visionary, a genius. Did he lose his storytelling chops? Yes. He spent too long running a corporation and not making things himself that when he returned to it, he was out of touch and out of sorts.

Coppola burned brighter. For 7 years he was the best filmmaker on Earth. Had perhaps the greatest 4-picture run this side of Hitchcock. No. Better than Hitchcock. Apocalypse was the last he had to give. It almost killed him. Drove him crazy. Broke him. He continued to make movies because it's all he knew how to do. He probably didn't know he was out of steam. He wasn't working cynically. And he made some pretty good flicks. Outsiders. Tucker. Dracula. None of them masterpieces but good. I can't account for him as a man, but he was never the same filmmaker after '79. It's like a ball player who has a few amazing years, gets hurt, and, while they're still good at their job, are never quite the same. They just lose something. Coppola just lost something. But not for lack of trying.

Lucas, on the other hand, was atrophy. Deterioration due to lack of use. And also a sensibility that didn't evolve mature along with his audience because he wasn't growing with them. He came back after a long time and brought a baby doll to his niece's 18th birthday party because the last time he saw her she was six.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: MartinTeller on January 21, 2016, 12:12:11 PM
Martin, I was reading your reviews of George Lucas films and noticed there isn't one for American Grafitti. You've seen it, right?

Yep, a couple of times. Last time would have been around 2000.


Duel of Fates is the only Williams score that I remember the name of from any of the SW films.

Same here, but only because it was in some videogame (I wanna say Soul Calibur?) and the title appeared on the screen every time. However, I could not hum a note of it.

Wow about the lightsaber battle, I mean yellow eyes were the color of the emperor's eyes, the color Anakin's eyes turned in Ep3, I think it's symbolic.  The horns I assumed were part of the species, I've seen good guys of that species in Knights of the Old Republic. 

The point is Lucas went completely over-the-top with the character design to try to make him look evil and menacing... to the point that he just looks (IMHO) ridiculous.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: philip918 on January 21, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
Very, very well put, 1SO.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Bondo on January 21, 2016, 12:42:24 PM
Duel of the Fates is just a rip off of Carmina Burana's O Fortuna. *snob*
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 21, 2016, 01:10:37 PM
1SO makes a lot of good points.  But there is one other difference: fans.  No one faults Copolla for making mediocre films, and although GIII is generally derided, it takes away nothing from GI and GII from being two of the greatest films of the 70s.

According to fans, Lucas made two errors: the prequels and the special editions.  Star Wars and Empire were over-loved, over-rated and when Lucas made those errors, he messed with people's cherished memories.  Copolla at least left well enough alone.  The people who didn't like GIII can ignore it, if they wish.  But Copolla didn't mess with the original films.  There was a chronological release (The Godfather Saga), but every scene was left intact.

In the end, there was enough screaming and complaining about Lucas that it affects how we view him.  Also, he was a great visionary, but not much of a director of actors.  Actually, he was lousy at that.  The best acting he got came from the performers, not from his direction.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on January 21, 2016, 01:39:15 PM
Lucas can do many of the roles of a director very well, find a great composer, find a great effects team. He also writes a reasonable script. However the key role for a director is getting a great performance out of the cast, and in this he is a failure. Coppola on the other hand gets great performances, time and time again. Coppola does find great music and effects. So Lucas is a good director, but not on the level of Coppola.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: verbALs on January 21, 2016, 01:39:55 PM
1. Apocalypse Now Redux has a poor reputation. In that sense the argument that Lucas tinkered and Coppola didn't is moot.
2. Coppola's later films are mediocre. Lucas' later films are appalling.
3. In both filmmakers cases the poor films don't hurt their great films. To my mind, they show the falability of both creators. In that sense they emphasise how good their best efforts are in comparison. My point of view is always the creativity/ greatness can last one movie, song or novel. Each great creation promises potential but it never guarantees it. Hence it never seems surprising when the next film isn't as good. It can be disappointing like Hateful 8 but it's never a surprise.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 04:51:21 PM
(http://imgur.com/L07hbam.jpg)
#19 Mark Romanek

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
135.8812.545384

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(http://imgur.com/CNXVI1I.jpg)
#18 Abel Ferrara

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
94.8482.550593

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(http://imgur.com/wgGopS2.jpg)
#17 Joe and Anthony Russo

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
74.8772.559586

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(http://imgur.com/RMd9AEt.jpg)
#16 Zhangke Jia

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
116.0222.567346

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 04:54:19 PM
1. Apocalypse Now Redux has a poor reputation. In that sense the argument that Lucas tinkered and Coppola didn't is moot.
Coppola did a live edit of Twixt at the premiere, which may be applauded by some for its originality but really rubbed me the wrong way. One of the more desperate attempts to retain artistic credibility, and proof that Coppola is just as detached a tinkerer.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 21, 2016, 04:59:27 PM
Mark Romanek and The Russo Bros. are 2 new interesting examples. Both have done their strongest work in a medium other than cinema. Romanek's music videos are as distinct and influential to the medium as Spike Jonze. The Russos shook up television with Arrested Development and Community. They each also have a single feature with a strong group of fans (Never Let Me Go, Captain America: The Winter Soldier). So they've proven themselves to be good directors, but are so inconsistent it would be easy to say they just got lucky a couple of times.

Abel Ferrara is a textbook divisive filmmaker, yet his Ratings cluster into 3-7, with only a couple on the extreme ends.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 21, 2016, 05:32:37 PM
Apocalypse Now Redux has a poor reputation. In that sense the argument that Lucas tinkered and Coppola didn't is moot.

Wrong.  So wrong.

And I don't think accurate.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apocalypse_now_redux_2001/ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apocalypse_now_redux_2001/)
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: chardy999 on January 21, 2016, 06:55:20 PM
Different reasoning: It wasn't Coppola's later work (which granted I haven't seen much of) that held me back from a higher rating but The Conversation and Apocalypse Now. But despite not liking them, I still rated Coppola high because of the directorial feats of G1 and GII.

If Romanek and his fans are holding up Never Let Me Go as his best work, sounds like he was lucky not to get a negative score!
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 22, 2016, 10:04:10 AM
(http://imgur.com/OlvOQjs.jpg)
#15 Michael Haneke

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
176.2792.573277

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#14 Takashi Miike

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145.1842.636538

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(http://imgur.com/tsQ9dHF.jpg)
#13 Kevin Smith

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
174.0312.652662

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 22, 2016, 02:03:31 PM
(http://imgur.com/o0jvv6N.jpg)
#12 Terrence Davies

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
136.8632.675135

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#11 The Duplass Brothers

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
134.6272.694624

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(http://imgur.com/ICVbil6.jpg)
#10 Ken Burns

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
75.6902.722432

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Junior on January 22, 2016, 02:06:22 PM
Lol, the rug returns! I'm that 10 again, though I've only seen two (The Long Day Closes and The Deep Blue Sea). Both are amazing.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 22, 2016, 11:01:01 PM
I'm surprised that Miike is so divisive.  A 0, really?  Perhaps that person only saw some of his extreme cinema and not some classics like 13 Assassins.  Or even Audition. 
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Bondo on January 22, 2016, 11:04:12 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm not the 0 on Miike. I think I'm a 2. Seen both 13 Assassins and Audition. Actually, pretty much only those.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 22, 2016, 11:23:26 PM
Bondo, you are not the zero, and I'm less surprised by Miike making the list than I am by Ken Burns, where again Bondo, you are not the lowest Rating. What do people have against Ken Burns, especially among a group that rate Frederick Wiseman so highly?
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Bondo on January 22, 2016, 11:51:24 PM
Not the lowest on Burns, but among the highest on Wiseman. I don't really see why that is confusing, very different styles ultimately.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 23, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
(http://imgur.com/BGELbRK.jpg)
#9 Nobuhiko ‘bayashi

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
65.1232.756549

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#8 Mel Gibson

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
155.1432.813548

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: MartinTeller on January 23, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
(http://imgur.com/BGELbRK.jpg)
#9 Nobuhiko ‘bayashi

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
65.1232.756549

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Where's the 6th vote?
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 23, 2016, 12:50:28 PM
I try to double check for this but I'm also working out of town this weekend. The missing Rating is Mine and it was a 7. I corrected the post.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 23, 2016, 12:50:45 PM
(http://imgur.com/SBbQHH8.jpg)
#7 Quentin Tarantino

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
227.0682.81990

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(http://imgur.com/PkUQDI6.jpg)
#6 Andrzej Zulawski

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
66.2452.825283

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Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 24, 2016, 07:21:24 AM
(http://imgur.com/EPbxrV4.jpg)
#5 Jerry Lewis

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
85.4252.839492

Vote Distribution
1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9     10
1     1     -     1     -     1      2     1     1     -     

 

(http://imgur.com/o9v0DOA.jpg)
#4 Stan Brakhage

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
125.8932.858377

Vote Distribution
1     2     3     4     5     6     6.5     7     8     8.5    9    10
2      -      -      2     -     1     1      2     1      2      1      -     

Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Sandy on January 24, 2016, 07:48:56 AM
oh boy

Now we're getting to it, aren't we? These two are at great odds in my own head, battling it out between aversion and appreciation. 
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: roujin on January 24, 2016, 01:00:54 PM
Both great.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 24, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
(http://imgur.com/YTDkdwY.jpg)
#3 Jacques Tati

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
146.4352.904233

Vote Distribution
1     2     3     4     5     6     7     7.5     8     9     10
1     2     -     -     2     -     2      1     2     4     -     
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 24, 2016, 01:53:21 PM
Interesting that Quentin has ratings at every main integer.   That seems to be the extreme definition of "divisive."
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Junior on January 24, 2016, 02:06:06 PM
I am also surprised at the Tati spread! What's happening!?!?!
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 24, 2016, 02:21:30 PM
Interesting that Quentin has ratings at every main integer.   That seems to be the extreme definition of "divisive."
Mel Gibson too (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13635.msg825679#msg825679)


I am also surprised at the Tati spread! What's happening!?!?!
I thought about this, and then I realized I know a lot of people who can't get into Tati. They can sometimes admire what he's doing and the complexity of it, but it's more exhausting than exciting and fun. I rated him in the middle, and find his overall effect wildly hit and miss.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: chardy999 on January 24, 2016, 09:51:36 PM
Tarantino deserves so much better in the overall standings with a distribution like that. There is a LOT of love there for a bloke ranked 90th.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 25, 2016, 08:50:04 AM
(http://imgur.com/jmDJxgW.jpg)
#2 Jean-Luc Godard

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
186.3203.036266

Vote Distribution
0     1     2     2.5     3     4     5     6     7     8     9     10
1     1     -     1     1     1     1     2      3     3     3     1     
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 25, 2016, 06:32:55 PM
(http://imgur.com/nolHXpG.gif)
#1 Lars Von Trier

Ratings     Score     Deviation      Director Rank
195.7543.266419

Vote Distribution
0     1     2     3     4     5     6     6.5     7     8     8.5     9     10
2     2     -     1     1     1     2     1     3      2     1     3     -     
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: sdb_1970 on January 25, 2016, 06:46:38 PM
Great gif on Von Trier!
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: jdc on January 25, 2016, 06:48:41 PM
That's perfect
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: oldkid on January 25, 2016, 07:02:16 PM
I put a 9 for Von Trier.  I might put a 9.5 now.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: 1SO on January 25, 2016, 09:05:39 PM
A few names I would've expected to make this list:

#53 Kenneth Anger - 2.273
#58 The Farrelly Brothers - 2.220
#69 Andy & Lana Wachowski - 2.167
#73 Nicholas Winding Refn - 2.126
#76 Terry Gilliam - 2.120
#92 Gaspar Noe - 2.090
#103 David Lynch - 2.065

Least Divisive Director: D.W. Griffith
1 Rating of 4 - 4 Ratings of 5 - 3 Ratings of 6
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on January 25, 2016, 09:35:02 PM
Well done 1SO, interesting list.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Junior on January 25, 2016, 09:54:27 PM
Oh of course it's LVT! That dude's crazy. Think I gave him an 8 or a 9...
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: JakeIsntFake on January 25, 2016, 10:11:28 PM
Well done 1SO, interesting list.
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: smirnoff on January 25, 2016, 11:10:50 PM
I would give the Farrelly Brothers a 10, and also a zero, but not a 5. :))
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: Jeff Schroeck on January 30, 2016, 06:55:12 AM
(http://imgur.com/gB5srKM.jpg)
#8 Mel Gibson

You know, I'm such a huge Mike Watt fan that I'm surprised I never knew that Mel Gibson played him in a biopic.

(http://www.hootpage.com/watt91a.jpg)
Title: Re: Director Ratings Project 2015: Top 50 Most Divisive Directors
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 05, 2016, 10:03:07 PM
Well done 1SO, interesting list.

Oh of course it's LVT! That dude's crazy.