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Filmspotting Message Boards => Top 5 Lists => Topic started by: DarkeningHumour on March 30, 2017, 02:50:48 PM

Title: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 30, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
I was going to phrase this as a « What's the single... » question, but I figured I might as well make a Top 5 out of it. As I see it, you can interpret the question in a « defining for my generation » way or you can go the « my favourite during my time on Earth » route. It's up to you which one you pick, though to my mind

(http://i.imgur.com/WXfuedi.gif)

If anyone's curious, this question was inspired by this (http://www.filmspotting.net/forum/index.php?topic=13998.msg868021#msg868021).
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 30, 2017, 03:01:01 PM
I'd like to see it without defining generation borders. Just Top 5 Franchises, so I could consider Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone) and the entire James Bond franchise.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 30, 2017, 03:19:27 PM
Do you consider that a movie franchise? I've always thought of it as an infinite tely series.

(Also, you're allowed to do your own non-generational thing if you want to, I think we all know Top 5 rules are indicative at best.)
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on March 30, 2017, 03:30:18 PM
1. The Lord of the Rings

2.Other less impressive things
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 30, 2017, 03:41:07 PM
Do you consider that a movie franchise? I've always thought of it as an infinite tely series.

That's why I specified the Rathbone Sherlocks, a series of 14 movies made from 1939 to 1946. I own the box set and would certainly consider them for this list.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 30, 2017, 03:50:20 PM
1. The Lord of the Rings

2.Other less impressive things

Shouldn't Mission: Impossible go in the space between?

I'm not putting LOTR in my list because I define a franchise as more than a trilogy, so to include LOTR you have to factor in The Hobbit, which drops the franchise below Star Wars. (SW 1-3 > The Hobbit)
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sandy on March 30, 2017, 03:55:00 PM
my generation, hmmm... a little before my "generation" and continuing on past it I suppose,

1. Star Wars

I don't know how I fit into these generations, but

2. Harry Potter
3. Star Trek
4. Toy Stories
5. Lord of the Rings
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: philip918 on March 30, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
This is more complicated than I thought. Harry Potter, while 8 films, are all adaptations of specific books so it feels less franchise-y than say James Bond or the MCU. I also agree that a franchise has to be more than a trilogy, so while I'd lean toward including Indiana Jones and Lord of the Rings based strictly on the strength of the first three films, the poor quality of the latter entries makes it hard to view them as successful franchises (while being extremely successful trilogies). Even with Star Wars, I haven't liked anything after the original trilogy.



James Bond

Mission: Impossible
I, III, & V

Halloween
None of the sequels come close to the first, but there's a lot of fun to be had. I haven't bothered with the Rob Zombie ones though.

Batman
Batman, Batman Returns, Mask of the Phantasm, Begins, Dark Knight

Mad Max
Based on how iconic the first two are and then to revive it 30 years later with one of my favorite films of the last decade.





Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 30, 2017, 06:08:10 PM
As a franchise, I'd put Nightmare on Elm Street above Halloween.

Jason Bourne also suffers badly past the trilogy.

Also, nobody has mentioned Fast & Furious yet, which is certainly a contender.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: philip918 on March 30, 2017, 06:22:51 PM
As a franchise, I'd put Nightmare on Elm Street above Halloween.

Jason Bourne also suffers badly past the trilogy.

Also, nobody has mentioned Fast & Furious yet, which is certainly a contender.

Had the same thought on Bourne. And certainly thought of F&F, but I've only seen the first one. I've also only seen the original Nightmare on Elm Street, but have seen every Halloween.

Rocky was also a contender (so to speak), with Creed being such a great revitalization of the series.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises
Post by: 1SO on March 31, 2017, 01:19:10 AM
So many possibilities and it's getting late. I have it down to 28 franchises so far, each with at least 4 features, 17 of which are still able to produce more films.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 31, 2017, 05:06:58 AM
I understand not liking the SW prequels, but ranking Bond above Star Wars? For shame. Also, there is no later Indiana Jones entry. There's just the three movies.

Also, nobody has mentioned Fast & Furious yet, which is certainly a contender.

I have only seen two or three, all of them early entries.

Batman
Batman, Batman Returns, Mask of the Phantasm, Begins, Dark Knight

Does it count as the same franchise if they reboot it or if the movies do not take place in the same universe? I'd say not.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on March 31, 2017, 05:36:12 AM
2 "franchises" I would consider are the Zatoichi movies and the Lone Wolf and Cub movies. Not sure about a top 5.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 31, 2017, 11:20:51 AM
I understand not liking the SW prequels, but ranking Bond above Star Wars? For shame.
I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. I have them right next to each other and find it to be a tough call putting one above the other.


Does it count as the same franchise if they reboot it or if the movies do not take place in the same universe? I'd say not.
We each make our own rules. You could consider Star Wars to be:
A New Hope (1977)
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Return of the Jedi (1983)
Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace (1999)
Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones (2002)
Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith (2005)
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
Star Wars Episode IX (2019)


Or you could make it:
A New Hope (1977)
The Star Wars Holiday Special (1978) (TV)
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Return of the Jedi (1983)
Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure (1984) (TV)
Ewoks: The Battle for Endor (1985) (TV)
The Phantom Menace (1999)
Attack of the Clones (2002)
Revenge of the Sith (2005)
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008)
Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion (2014) (TV)
Star Wars Rebels: Siege of Lothal (2015) (TV)
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
Unnamed Han Solo Film (2018)
Star Wars Episode IX (2019)
Unnamed Star Wars Anthology Film (2020)


Some might just include the ones done under George Lucas. You say not, I say we each make our own rules, so long as we can justify them. George Lucas produced a TV Series called "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles", and since you did not specify these as Feature Franchises and they are considered cannon, they could be folded into someone's selection.

Actually, since you have not specified these as Features, I now have to seriously consider The Simpsons for my Top 5.

...and Saturday Night Live.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: philip918 on March 31, 2017, 11:59:19 AM
If you include the TV incarnations then Batman jumps way up with Batman: The Animated Series.

Evil Dead would probably get into my Top 10 as well.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on March 31, 2017, 12:45:52 PM
I definitely have more affinity for the TV of my childhood than the films of my childhood.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 31, 2017, 01:02:21 PM
1SO, I was referring to the Batman franchise, not to Star Wars when I talked about reboots and such. I consider all movies to be part of the franchise, even if the direct to TV stuff might be debatable. Mentioning the Holiday Special is just cruel.

As for the TV series, well, are all these Top 5s not implicitly about movies unless specified otherwise? Aren't all TV series franchises by definition? That would open the door to the entirety of series. I say ban them.

Before I make a comparison, when you say Bond, do you mean the Craig run or the ones that were contemporary to the second trilogy?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 31, 2017, 01:06:34 PM
I'm considering ALL Bond from Dr. No to Spectre.

My generation's Bond is Roger Moore, and I say "Boo!" to just that.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 31, 2017, 01:26:53 PM
I don't even remember the pre-Craig Bonds at this point. I never loved any of them and have no appetite to rewatch them.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: sdb_1970 on March 31, 2017, 03:11:40 PM
Ranked solely by the average level of personal anticipation that came with each successive installment:

1. George Lucas' Star Wars
2. The Wackowski siblings' Matrix
3. Christopher Nolan's Batman
4. Peter Jackson's Middle-Earth (The Hobbit movies really pull this franchise's average down)
5. John Lasseter and Lee Unkrich's Toy Stories
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on March 31, 2017, 03:45:53 PM
I'm not considering Toy Story even though there have been short films and TV specials. It certainly fits many Franchise characteristics and can be seen separate from the rest of Pixar. However, until that 4th film comes out I still see TS as a Trilogy.

P.S. It amuses me that this started because of a comment I made about War for the Planet of the Apes, a feature that only raises the series to a prequel trilogy, unless you factor in the other Apes films which brings down the average considerably.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: oldkid on March 31, 2017, 05:40:22 PM
I'm struggling with the other question: what is "my generation"?   Generally, a "generation" is considered a group born in a certain time.  Do Boomers get all franchises from the 50s to today, while the Millennials only get the 90s to today?  Does a generation only get to claim a franchise if they were relatively young when it came out?  Certainly my generation claims Star Wars (it came out when I was 12), but it belongs to everyone now.  It's like Boomers claiming that the Beatles are "theirs".

I think I'm considering this too deeply.  Perhaps I should just post my favorite franchises?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 01, 2017, 04:23:08 AM
The movie should at least have been released while you were alive. It's up to you to decide if it still counts if you were old at that time, like 25 or something.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises
Post by: 1SO on April 02, 2017, 02:51:23 AM
Here's what I got, and I'll say this is one of the most unsteady lists I've ever made because I'm not putting film against film but ranking two inconsistent bodies of work.

1. Harry Potter
While I wouldn't call my self a Potterhead and would rather fantasize or work in the story department of other Franchises on this list, Harry Potter is the one that's just one great film after another. I'm not saying this to re-open the argument over Fantastic Beasts. I love it, most of you don't. In terms of quality, the low points are the first half of Chamber of Secrets and... I don't know, maybe the pacing of Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows Part 1.

2. The Living Dead
I am limiting this to the films actually directed by George A. Romero, so none of the remakes of Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead, none of the zombie spoofs like Return of the Living Dead and certainly none of the Italian films released as unauthorized sequels. George A. Romero's Dead series includes:
Night of the Living Dead (1968)
Dawn of the Dead (1978)
Day of the Dead (1985)
Land of the Dead (2005)
Diary of the Dead (2007)
Survival of the Dead (2009)
Night is Essential while Dawn is THE Epic Masterwork of zombie cinema. After that there's a drop in quality, but I've liked all of the films. While this may not appear to fit the cash cow label usually associated with a Franchise, the first two films were massive hits and the influence cannot be measured, though I would start with Shaun of the Dead.

3. James Bond
You can't argue with the longevity of the series, its ability to survive (and continue to make money) when the films aren't that good. In fact, it's the low points that make the good entries all the sweeter, and sometimes the lesser entries still deliver a great villain, Bond girl, stunt sequence or song

4. Star Wars
Nothing needs to be said here. The moment this topic was introduced the inclusion of Star Wars was never a question of 'if?", only a question of "where?" Now that George Lucas isn't the visionary behind every film and the films are venturing into the expanded universe, the decades of untapped story ideas are just beginning to see their way to the big screen. No other franchise has such a wealth of ideas to work from.

5. The Marx Brothers
Here's where the phrase "your generation" does not apply, and yet even while I was growing up I heard about the legendary Marx Brothers. Five of their thirteen feature films were selected by the American Film Institute as among the top 100 comedy films, with two of them (Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera) in the top twelve. They are widely considered by critics, scholars, and fans to be among the greatest and most influential comedians of the 20th century. I have to think for a long time, a new Marx Brothers film was viewed by the public with the same anticipation given to The Avengers today.

6. Batman
7. Marvel Cinematic Universe

This was a tough one to rank. The MCU has made a number of good films, but only a couple of Great ones. As a Franchise, they're very dependable, unlike the current state of Batman. However, I'm still more interested in The Caped Crusader as a character than any individual Marvel superhero, Probably because there have been Great ones spread out over decades, including Batman: The Animated Series and the recent Lego Batman. Compare that with a Lego Avengers which doesn't interest me in the least.

8. Mad Max
I don't now if there will ever be another Mad Max film, but George Miller has made four during three different decades and except for Thunderdome, each one has redefined action thrills and crazy/weird/cool.

9. The Muppets
From TV to Movies and back again, I am always interested in a new project starring The Muppets.

10. Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone)
11. Zatoichi
12. Road to...

Three Franchises from the past. Combined, they've only produced two Essential films, but they've been a pleasure to watch and re-watch. Zatoichi still has a number of the 26 film series I haven't seen yet, but it also boasts the 2003 reboot by Takeshi Kitano. The Road films of Bing Crosby and Bob Hope are the only Franchise that can't be rebooted, since their success depended on the two stars. However, many other comedy duos have tried, most notably in Spies Like Us, Ishtar and the animated film The Road to El Dorado.

13. Mission: Impossible
14. Broadway Melody - Series of 4 MGM musicals that all feature similar plot and cast.
15. The Fast and the Furious
16. X-Men
17. Michael Shayne - 7 film series from 1940-1942 starring Lloyd Nolan
18. Miss Marple - 4 film series from 1961-1964 starring Margaret Rutherford
19. Star Trek
20. Rocky
21. Lone Wolf and Cub
22. Jackass
23. Resident Evil
24. Jurassic Park
25. Scream
26. Hercule Peroit (starring Peter Ustinov)
27. The Thin Man
28. Abbott and Costello Meet Universal Monsters
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on April 02, 2017, 03:03:51 AM
Glad to see both Lone Wolf and Zatoichi in your list. However the presence of The Marx Brothers seems out of place. You may as well have put Abbott and Costello, or Jerry Lewis, how are The Marx Brothers a franchise?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 02, 2017, 09:36:22 AM
Here's a DVD (one of several) released by Universal.
(http://imgur.com/yZN4GHU.jpg)

An article about Franchises (https://filmschoolrejects.com/when-will-hollywood-stop-all-the-remakes-reboots-and-sequels-89168b416435) naming many from my list: "Comedy teams like Laurel & Hardy, the Marx Brothers, the Bowery Boys, and Abbott & Costello also made long series of films featuring themselves as characters. These may not have all been direct sequels, but they were certainly franchises in their own right."

My main reasoning is that The Marx Brothers never played different parts. In each film they played the exact same character and would sometimes do variations on the same routines and musical numbers they performed in other films, much like the Road films of Bing & Bob (which also has a "Franchise Collection" DVD.)
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on April 02, 2017, 03:54:08 PM
Seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: mañana on April 02, 2017, 10:44:12 PM
Jackass
Up
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: smirnoff on April 10, 2017, 05:15:42 PM
How about the The "28" zombie Franchise - there might be only two films, but they are two completely different sets of characters existing within the same world, which I think makes it more of a franchise than a film & sequel.

Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 10, 2017, 05:18:57 PM
You don't think a Franchise needs to be at least more than a trilogy?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: smirnoff on April 10, 2017, 05:28:08 PM
Eh, maybe they do. Not sure. Mostly when I think of a franchise it's films with different characters in the same world. To me Harry Potter, Mission Impossible, Toy Story, aren't really franchises, just single character stories that span multiple movies.

With the introduction of Prometheus and whatever comes after it, I would now consider the Alien a Franchise.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 10, 2017, 05:47:28 PM
By that logic Fast and Furious is not a franchise but Flags of Our Fathers / Letters From Iwo Jima is.

I think you're weeding out a series from a franchise.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: smirnoff on April 10, 2017, 06:00:43 PM
Yeah, I haven't put enough thought into this. :)) Someone define the terms! :)
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: mañana on April 10, 2017, 06:52:32 PM
You don't think a Franchise needs to be at least more than a trilogy?
Why three not enough?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 10, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
Many studios plan for 3 films. A trilogy sets film 3 as a definite endpoint with no continuing films. (Hunger Games split their finale, creating a quadrilogy, but until they announce a new HG film it's still not a franchise.) Star Wars contains 3 trilogies, but the franchise includes the other features and combines the trilogies, much like The Middle Earth franchise and The Lord of the Rings trilogy. The new Planet of the Apes films become a trilogy this summer, but combined with the previous series they make a franchise.

1 = Tentpole
2 = Sequel
3 = Trilogy
4+ = Franchise
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: MartinTeller on April 10, 2017, 11:34:50 PM
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/franchise

Quote
a set of creative works and related merchandise that share a fictional world, as films, television shows, books, or games: the Star Wars franchise;
the Pokémon franchise
.

No mention of specific numbers.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Junior on April 10, 2017, 11:45:18 PM
I do generally buy 1SO's definition. Seems like each of the other steps before 4 are their own things. But also, I like 'noff's assertion that even at only 2 films, the 28 movies feel like a franchise. So, I guess "convince me" would be my standpoint.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: smirnoff on April 10, 2017, 11:59:41 PM
I haven't seen the second one, but I would think Sin City would be a franchise as well, to the same degree the 28 movies are.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 11, 2017, 03:40:19 AM
Hellboy is the obvious answer now that I've had time to think about it.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: mañana on April 11, 2017, 09:10:55 AM
Many studios plan for 3 films. A trilogy sets film 3 as a definite endpoint with no continuing films. (Hunger Games split their finale, creating a quadrilogy, but until they announce a new HG film it's still not a franchise.) Star Wars contains 3 trilogies, but the franchise includes the other features and combines the trilogies, much like The Middle Earth franchise and The Lord of the Rings trilogy. The new Planet of the Apes films become a trilogy this summer, but combined with the previous series they make a franchise.

1 = Tentpole
2 = Sequel
3 = Trilogy
4+ = Franchise
I still don't understand why 4 is your minimum.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 11, 2017, 09:41:43 AM
When you have a trilogy it's a complete story. Three films telling one epic tale inside a shared fictional world. (Pirates, Star Wars) Once you get away from that, the world becomes a franchise. This is why Apes started this conversation. I could be wrong but I don't think War is the finale of Caesar's tale. I believe there will be a 4th movie and he will be a key player in it.

There are plenty of Franchises that tell a complete tale in more than 3 films. Harry Potter is an obvious one, which is why I'm more comfortable now that there's Fantastic Beasts inside the Wizarding World franchise.


These aren't entrenched rules, only my entrenched guidelines.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Teproc on April 11, 2017, 10:15:35 AM
I get the reasoning but not all trilogies are structured like that. Would Indiana Jones really not count as a franchise if it had stopped with Last Crusade ?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 11, 2017, 10:33:47 AM
Malick is the ultimate franchise if we're being honest here.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 11, 2017, 10:37:05 AM
Malick is the ultimate franchise if we're being honest here.
Even now, with the recent entries getting pasted more than The Hobbit?
And has he ever connected his films into a shared universe?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 11, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
I get the reasoning but not all trilogies are structured like that. Would Indiana Jones really not count as a franchise if it had stopped with Last Crusade ?
It would be a franchise if you consider the books and TV show and theme park rides. As a series of films it would have only been a trilogy.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 11, 2017, 10:40:03 AM
Malick is the ultimate franchise if we're being honest here.
Even now, with the recent entries getting pasted more than The Hobbit?
And has he ever connected his films into a shared universe?
I love To the Wonder. I'll watch Knight of Cups again. All of human experience is a shared universe, 1SO!
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 11, 2017, 10:42:09 AM
Martin's definition calls it a shared "fictional world," so human experience doesn't fit.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 11, 2017, 10:48:44 AM
My trolling is wasted on you lot.  :P
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: oldkid on April 11, 2017, 11:19:45 AM
I would have considered The Evil Dead trilogy a franchise.  Because it wasn't planned as a trilogy and it doesn't tell a continuous story.   Each episode required a different production and a different decision to keep the series going.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 11, 2017, 11:37:42 AM
Yet the first 3 films are a trilogy, telling the story of Ash. Once they added the remake, the series became a franchise.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 11, 2017, 01:40:33 PM
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me: A franchise so big it spawned a restaurant franchise!
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 06:16:11 AM
Yet the first 3 films are a trilogy, telling the story of Ash. Once they added the remake, the series became a franchise.

Surely the idea of a continued, self-contained story is more important than the number of movies? Teproc is right that, although the Indiana Jones movies, of which there are only three, make up a trilogy, that trilogy does not have an intermovie arc. They are three self-contained movies that take place in the same universe and feature the same characters. No plot points otherwise connect them. By your own rules, it should count as a franchise.

Remakes on the other hand, shouldn't. They reset the continuity and therefore belong to, if anything, a new franchise. The Batman movies, for example, do not share continuity or universe, so should not be considered a franchise, including the Nolan ones, which tell a unified story, and are therefore simply a trilogy.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 06:33:02 AM
Top 5 Movie franchises of my Generation:

The MCU
Like or not, Marvel wrote the new rulebook on moviemaking. They set the standard for big action blockbusters and everyone is trying to follow their lead. It will probably be decades before the mainstream switches formulae.

Star Wars
The prequels were probably the most anticipated movies of all time, terrible as they were. That disappointment marked more than just one generation while kids who were lucky enough to be young enough to know better were actually able to have some great fun for a few years until they realised that no, just no. I hold judgement on the new movies for now.

Harry Potter
This one is more difficult to call a franchise, so call this my cheat entry. There were a few years when, at Christmas, you knew you could expect a new Harry Potter movie to come out, and the furore was insane. Harry Potter was tradition for a little while.

And I guess I don't know how to count to five. Most others cannot be considered of my generation or are not franchises by my rules. Or they were not that influential.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on April 13, 2017, 09:07:00 AM
Demolition Man finally brought us closure on the great franchise war.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 13, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Surely the idea of a continued, self-contained story is more important than the number of movies? Teproc is right that, although the Indiana Jones movies, of which there are only three, make up a trilogy, that trilogy does not have an intermovie arc. They are three self-contained movies that take place in the same universe and feature the same characters. No plot points otherwise connect them. By your own rules, it should count as a franchise.
When they made the 3rd, there was never a plan to continue onwards, which is why he rides off into the sunset, why it was so many years until they decided to extend the trilogy into a franchise. Three different adventures, but in the end Indiana Jones' arc was complete.


Remakes on the other hand, shouldn't. They reset the continuity and therefore belong to, if anything, a new franchise. The Batman movies, for example, do not share continuity or universe, so should not be considered a franchise, including the Nolan ones, which tell a unified story, and are therefore simply a trilogy.
One of the key decisions that makes a franchise is when a Studio decides to do a remake, prequel or reboot. They're taking an existing property and rebuilding the world.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 11:07:20 AM
Exactly, that contradicts your point about the movies having to share a universe. Remakes and such do no such thing, they tabula rasa the past and do their own thing. I could be more easily convinced about unity in cross-media franchise building than in reboots.

Prequels are fair game however, they add to the timeline.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: MartinTeller on April 13, 2017, 11:22:44 AM
My god, the hair-splitting is this thread is maddening. Can't we just say a franchise is any set of two or more movies that occupy the same fictional universe? Isn't the whole point of saying "what are the top franchises" just another way of asking "what fictional worlds do you like to visit"? What difference does it make how many there are or whether more movies are planned or not or if it's a remake?
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Knocked Out Loaded on April 13, 2017, 11:33:53 AM
"Two or more" is totally fine for me.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 11:38:46 AM
The point of the thread is not to ask a "which worlds would you like to visit" sort of question. It is about the impact of certain protracted series of movies on generational cohorts and their overall quality as perceived by the members of the forum. The Apes movies are better than Harry Potter but I would still prefer to visit Hogwarts than their post-apocalyptic simianscape. And hair splitting is at least 50% of the fun in any Top 5 thread.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Teproc on April 13, 2017, 01:01:50 PM
My god, the hair-splitting is this thread is maddening. Can't we just say a franchise is any set of two or more movies that occupy the same fictional universe? Isn't the whole point of saying "what are the top franchises" just another way of asking "what fictional worlds do you like to visit"? What difference does it make how many there are or whether more movies are planned or not or if it's a remake?

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who find those conversations maddening, and those who question what "people" means, exactly.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 01:04:54 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 13, 2017, 02:12:29 PM
Exactly, that contradicts your point about the movies having to share a universe. Remakes and such do no such thing, they tabula rasa the past and do their own thing.
Exactly. They don't share the overall story, but they share the universe.

Prequels are fair game however, they add to the timeline.
The timeline has no bearing on a shared universe. A franchise can and often does contradict individual stories. Retroactive continuity is common. Now that Disney had control of Star Wars, much of the expanded universe contradicts what happened during the Lucas era, but it's all still Star Wars. "Do you want to know how I got these scars?" comes with a different story from The Joker every time, but it's still Joker's world.

Harry Potter
This one is more difficult to call a franchise, so call this my cheat entry. There were a few years when, at Christmas, you knew you could expect a new Harry Potter movie to come out, and the furore was insane. Harry Potter was tradition for a little while.
Does that mean you will ignore the Fantastic Beasts films that come from the same universe and share characters, much like the non-existent Crystal Skull?


My god, the hair-splitting is this thread is maddening. Can't we just say a franchise is any set of two or more movies that occupy the same fictional universe? Isn't the whole point of saying "what are the top franchises" just another way of asking "what fictional worlds do you like to visit"? What difference does it make how many there are or whether more movies are planned or not or if it's a remake?
I, for one am enjoying the discussion and am happy to keep it up for as long as I can. As to your first question, this all derailed because I say a franchise requires a minimum of 4 films. It is an increasingly minority opinion, but I think I've done a good job stating my reasons and now am just engaging in the finer points. If it's one thing I've learned, there are no rules when it comes to movies, which means I know there must be contradictions to my 4 Film Rule. So far though (I hope) I haven't crossed over into becoming an obstinate pest.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: DarkeningHumour on April 13, 2017, 04:31:38 PM
Obstinate pests unite!

1) I will address your first two quotes-replies at the same time because they're about the same issue. When I say universe, I am talking about a continuity, which I am using here as a synonym to timeline. Take the two as yet aired Spiderman series. They're not part of the same universe where my rules are concerned. They may be two separate franchises - whether or not they are is besides the point I am making - but what happens in one does not impact the other. How can they both belong to the same universe when they offer contradictory versions of the same characters, arcs, etc.?

Retconning is a different issue. Retconning is a way of maintaining continuity whilst altering some element for whatever reason. Much as I hate it when it happens, it does not a franchise unmake, at least semantically. Qualitatively is another matter.

When a franchises contradicts continuity, not in a retconning way but rather in an overlooking what happened before way, that's just sloppy writing and poor supervision. I am still mad about AoU not recognising the changes extremis allowed Start in IM 3, such as getting rid of the arc reactor. Although, considering how well the entire movie ties in with the franchise, it is probably Shane Black's fault more than anyone's.

2) The expanded universes issue. This happens not only with Star Wars but with some other universes too, the MCU included. There are two types of it. There are expanded universes that are officially connected to the movies - take the Star Wars comic books released just before Star Wars VII to fill in some blanks. Then there are the EU where some creative types took the universe and went with it but in a less official capacity, ie, the rest of the SW EU. There have been lots of SW fiction contradicting each other in the past because there was no cannon because most of it was not movie-level legitimate.

I have trouble including non-movie stuff in the franchises, but if I am going to, I want a statement from the creators clearly saying that all the pieces tie into each other.

3) Fantastic Beasts is very much part of the Potterverse as of last year, I am unsure what part of what I wrote suggested otherwise to you. Some of the magic is gone, but the movies are 100% in the universe. And I don't know what that movie you mentioned is.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: Dave the Necrobumper on April 13, 2017, 05:41:26 PM
Best franchise that never was Buckaroo Banzai.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: oldkid on April 13, 2017, 06:24:17 PM
Best franchise that never was Buckaroo Banzai.

Truth.
Title: Re: Top 5 Franchises of Your Generation
Post by: 1SO on April 13, 2017, 07:58:37 PM
How can they both belong to the same universe when they offer contradictory versions of the same characters, arcs, etc.?
Same franchise, alternate realities. Sam Raimi's Spiderman trilogy is part of the same Sony franchise that released the two starring Andrew Garfield. Spiderman gets interesting now because he is still head of his own franchise (like Wolverine), but is being temporarily folded into the MCU. Even his appearance in Civil War felt like a guest star out on loan.

When a franchises contradicts continuity, not in a retconning way but rather in an overlooking what happened before way, that's just sloppy writing and poor supervision.
It can be. The Spiderman franchise has now had two origin features, displaying a different tone to go with the new casting. Even with Christopher Nolan's involvement, Ben Affleck's Batman is not a continuation of Christian Bale's Batman. However, they are both part of the Batman Franchise, as are the versions by Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher, both of which have used villains that were later reused by Nolan. Batman is not a series of trilogies and one-offs. Much like Bond, people keep turning up to see their beloved Batman in all his forms. That's what makes Batman a franchise.


I have trouble including non-movie stuff in the franchises, but if I am going to, I want a statement from the creators clearly saying that all the pieces tie into each other.
Me too. I have a friend who has followed all the branches of the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Kathleen Kennedy clearly stated that starting with The Force Awakens, the only stories you can carry into this new era are the other two film trilogies. All other Expanded Universe stories will not necessarily fit into this new world they are building.


3) Fantastic Beasts is very much part of the Potterverse as of last year, I am unsure what part of what I wrote suggested otherwise to you. Some of the magic is gone, but the movies are 100% in the universe.
You called it "Harry Potter" and everything you wrote leaned towards just those films, to the exclusion of Fantastic Beasts.