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Filmspotting Message Boards => Movie Talk (Spoiler Edition) => Topic started by: MattDrufke on June 04, 2017, 07:12:08 AM

Title: Wonder Woman
Post by: MattDrufke on June 04, 2017, 07:12:08 AM
I'm just gonna cut to the chase:

Man, was the ending to this film BAD. It was SO BAD.

We obviously know that Wonder Woman is going to survive because we see her in the beginning of the movie. That being said, there was absolutely nothing interesting about her last battle (or the reveal who the villain was). She never seemed in danger of losing this fight and doesn't even win it in a way which shows that she has grown or learned anything.

I feel like a much more interesting movie would've been if Diana had helped destroy the weapons bunker, THEN fight the General, THEN Ares shows up and says, "Ha! Here I am and blah blah blah..." and then vanishes WITHOUT any fight at all. Give her a reason to stick around and keep fighting evil.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Bondo on June 04, 2017, 08:23:43 AM
Ares is a bit of a red herring. Yes, she vanquishes him, but it is making a commentary on our habit of wanting to assign the ills in the world with a particular face or label. I was just talking about this in the General Chatter thread related to the latest terrorism incident in London. We want to say the problem is bin Laden/Al Queda or ISIL and if only we kill the Ace of Hearts from our deck of bad guys, we will return to a good place. I'm not going to say that the end of the film was amazing as cinema (I think the battle with Ares was the least interesting action set piece) and the leap at the very end was just kind of silly, but thematically it is on point.

Keeping Ares around would undercut this by making him the continuing focus of her energies. Now she knows it is an everlasting struggle to make things better on the margins.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: MattDrufke on June 04, 2017, 10:26:04 AM
I get what you're saying here... I just wanted more. It sounds like maybe you did, too.

I'll also be the first to admit that while this movie is fine, it left me very underwhelmed. I could see that if someone was just super into this movie, it could've been a lot more satisfying. It just didn't really do it for me.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: sdb_1970 on June 04, 2017, 04:08:57 PM
I agree with both of you.  The bad was that I saw the "twist" coming from a mile away, and it felt like the reins had been handed back over to Zack Snyder for the final 25 minutes of immortal-bashing action.  The good was the thematic, as Bondo put it nicely, and to that purpose, I thought Gadot (who seemed like a toss-in piece of character-inflation-to-cover-up-weak-narrative in BVS:DOJ) did an effective job at bringing an innocent/naive sense of strength and purpose to the character (kinda like Christopher Reeve), while retaining (dare I say) a distinct element of "femininity" (as opposed to recent trend of merely servicing an expanding audience by doing little more than shifting the gender of the badass, as in, e.g., Mad Max: Fury Road).

In any case, I was glad the DC powers that be opted to hold on to the more subversive quality of the magic lasso.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: sdb_1970 on June 04, 2017, 06:53:38 PM
... also, a clever bit of casting + makeup effects for Dr. Poison?

(http://aflixionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/WW-SILI.jpg)
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Adam on June 05, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
Can someone help me with a plot point clarification?

-Diana's mother seems to want to protect her from knowing her true heritage ("The more she knows, the easier it will be for him to find her," or something like that she says*.)

-The reveal that she is Zeus' daughter is just that, a reveal/surprise, near the end of the movie.

-So why does Diana's mother offhandedly sort of but in a crucial scene tell Diana that she's not an Amazon?

* Is this only supposed to be about the secret of the sword?
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: FLYmeatwad on June 05, 2017, 07:53:58 PM
I thought that was strange too, but the only thing I could come up with was that she knew she wasn't an Amazon her whole life (she thought she was sculpted from clay and was the only child, so I assume that made her not a 'real' Amazon in the way the others were created), but she didn't know she Zeus' daughter.

In the scene where she's fighting her aunt, she uses powers while blocking a sword, and that seems to confuse the other Amazons, and even her to some extent, but not the exact same it seems, though her mother and her aunt seem to take it as normal. But either way, it's definitely a strange thing that threw me off as well.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: saltine on June 06, 2017, 01:42:28 AM
Quote
-So why does Diana's mother offhandedly sort of but in a crucial scene tell Diana that she's not an Amazon?

Diana has always known that she's not Amazon.  She thinks she was molded from clay and breathed into life by Zeus.

As she grows up, she realizes that she's got some powers but thinks that she is channeling Zeus.  She doesn't know she's a god, daughter of Zeus, until she's fighting Ares.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Fugee on June 06, 2017, 05:24:53 PM
I'm just gonna cut to the chase:

Man, was the ending to this film BAD. It was SO BAD.

I agree wholeheartedly. I think the movie begins and ends rather poorly. I was disappointed to see so much CGI in the opening introduction to the amazons and their training. I'm not sure who is impressed by obviously-fake fight choreography and stunts, but it felt like a missed opportunity to actually show us how adept these warriors are.

It was unfortunate, too, that the trend would continue throughout the film. I quite like David Thewlis but if you've gotta CG the shit out of his body and movements just to make him seem like a menacing god of war, maybe cast someone else?

Still, thoroughly enjoyed the film for the most part. Liked the chemistry between Diana and Steve, the fish-out-of-water stuff when they first get to London, and the big set piece when WW saves the village. Refreshing to see something enjoyable coming out of DC and I honestly might have liked it more than Guardians 2  :o

Quote
We obviously know that Wonder Woman is going to survive because we see her in the beginning of the movie. That being said, there was absolutely nothing interesting about her last battle (or the reveal who the villain was). She never seemed in danger of losing this fight and doesn't even win it in a way which shows that she has grown or learned anything.

This feels like a big problem for Superhero movies in general these days. It's a challenge to manufacture stakes when your main characters are basically (or literally in this case) gods, but they still seem to miss the mark rather often. Like you said, I don't think I worried about the outcome of the fight at any point during it, and the film similarly seemed to pay no mind to the bystanders at the base as they fly around blowing things up and hurling tanks at one another. Aren't Diana's friends just a few yards away off screen? What about all the soldiers that Diana wants to save because she believes they are innocents poisoned by Ares's influence? If memory serves, the establishing shots showed the base crawling with people. Where'd they go?
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on June 07, 2017, 07:14:46 AM
The opening and closing act of this film were so boring to me. The setup is so much exposition and nonsense that we don't need. All we need is Diana is daughter of Zeus, grew up on an island of only women, and she was born to stop Ares. Everything else doesn't factor into the plot in a meaningful way.

The conclusion is just another battle between two seemingly indestructible beings and a lot of flashy explosions. I did like the bit with Chris Pine's character, but just about everything else in the final act left me feeling like I was just watching the end of Man of Steel again, but without the horror of seeing a highly populated area reduced to rubble.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 08, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Wonder Woman
Parry Jenkins (2017)


To understand what works and what doesn't in Wonder Woman, what are its failures and its successes, is to understand the bold gambit of the project. Wonder Woman is a movie whose ambition is to be many disparate things at once. That is both the source of its main qualities and flaws.

The premise of the movie is to be superhero movie, but whereas most examples of the genre are content being just that, developing their two hour character arcs and origin stories and little else, Jenkins decided to do more. Hers is also a fish out of water story about a woman navigating another culture and, indeed, another time. It is a war movie in the proper sense, one that relegates the first Captain America to a children's cartoon ; a fantasy story that blends classical mythology with modern history ; a coming of age tale about a woman who must prove herself as a warrior just as she discovers the opposite sex, in senses both literal and figurative.

The writers set themselves up for an Ares-powered challenge of a screenplay to overcome and their limitations account for most of the misses of the final work. While there are times when all elements of the movie work seamlessly together, they oftentimes also jar, and there are even instances when both occasions are superimposed. There is a scene where an oblivious Diana unknowingly partakes in flirtatious banter with Captain Kirk. The scene is overall charming, but it also sounds idiotic more than once, and Gal Gadot for all her considerable qualities is not the kind of actress who is able to transcend and makes us forget her material. Diana's sexuality is then utterly forgotten until the unavoidable kiss scene. One cannot help but imagine she would have displayed more early curiosity about the whole business in the prior days.

One of the possibilities for making the Wonder Woman movie was to ellipsize Diana's discovery of the modern world, which would have spared the writers with figuring out how someone from Ancient Greece would react to modern London. Again, while charming, Diana's bout of shopping and the surrounding scenes are at best silly, and at worse egregious displays of writing incompetence. Did Kirk not think of explaining the most basic elements of modern society to her whilst they crossed a sea and an ocean?

I was always perplexed by what facets of modernity they chose to make Diana comment on, especially where war was concerned. The war story part of the movie is responsible for some of its best elements, but it is also tragically self defeating. It is the part of the movie that truly confronts Diana with human nature and that most demonstrates how out of place she is in the world. After a number of discoveries, Diana is ultimately confronted with the fact that killing one person is not enough to stop a war, that the mechanisms of it do not work that way, and that men might just wage war because it is in their nature, not because they have been corrupted. That also opens the way to a more powerful message about why one should truly help or fight for another.

Wonder Woman would have been quite unique had it left things there to play out but unfortunately it felt the need to add a twist to the story and place its final boss battle afterwards. Despite my overall enjoyment of the fight, that cancelled whatever the movie had just achieved. War becomes the fault of a lone madman and when Diana triumphs (through the power of love, ugh...) German and British soldiers automatically fall into each others arms - precisely what the film should have avoided. That is the most troubling thing about Wonder Woman: its willingness to suggest that war could not be our responsibility but someone else's. I was glad, for that reason, that they did not choose the Second World War as their setting, although that creates a incoherence in the plot, as everything about the prophecy indicates that should be Ares' zenith.

I have never been a fan of comic books that mix mythology with superheroes because the universes they build seldom make sense on the most basic levels, and this film is no different. Godhood makes for compelling Mortal Kombat moves, but indestructibility is boring, and load of questions are left unanswered like "Why did only 30 go by on the Amazon island?" or "Why do wars continue to happen after Ares dies?".

In terms of action, DC has a rather different to shoot challenge than Marvel. Many of its characters are superlatively powerful, moving at incredible speeds and punching with titanic might to dwarf Thor's. With Snyder, the studio found a way to capture the action, especially the speed, following the characters as they jump around at a dizzying pace and swat their human enemies like so many flies. It works well, even if the CGI backgrounds in this movie are often distressingly noticeable.

With clunky dialogue, uneven storytelling, competent action and slivers of innovation, Wonder Woman is a complicated product to distil, one one hopes to see more of, if the alternative is the usual DC fare.

7/10
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Bondo on June 08, 2017, 05:42:51 PM
War becomes the fault of a lone madman and when Diana triumphs (through the power of love, ugh...) German and British soldiers automatically fall into each others arms - precisely what the film should have avoided. That is the most troubling thing about Wonder Woman: its willingness to suggest that war could not be our responsibility but someone else's. I was glad, for that reason, that they did not choose the Second World War as their setting.

While I think your last bit there acknowledges that WWI was a war where opposing sides could fall into each others arms (see Joyeux Noel), I also think your broader statement misreads the ending. It isn't saying Ares is dead and thus war is done, it is precisely saying Ares had nothing to do with it and war will continue. That is the test Ares presents to Diana. Can she still fight for them knowing they are flawed, not just corrupted by Ares. That the Germans who are left start hugging the Americans there is because that battle is so completely and utterly over they see no need to fight and are just happy to be alive.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: pixote on June 08, 2017, 06:05:15 PM
The best part of the movie was when Chris Pine's character admitted that you can't save everyone, but Wonder Woman declared that she could, and then she proved her point by slaughtering a hundred soldiers, who, being German, fall outside the umbrella of "everyone" ...

pixote
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on June 08, 2017, 06:08:14 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Bondo on June 08, 2017, 06:28:08 PM
Yeah, but she saved everyone in that village until they were all killed by mustard gas. So she has the power to momentarily delay the death of everyone.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: sdb_1970 on June 08, 2017, 07:52:49 PM
I think she deserved a better villain in terms of directly challenging her innocence/na´vetÚ/hubris - like a Gene Hackman Lex Luther.  A decent villain makes the win that much sweeter.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 09, 2017, 03:45:44 AM
War becomes the fault of a lone madman and when Diana triumphs (through the power of love, ugh...) German and British soldiers automatically fall into each others arms - precisely what the film should have avoided. That is the most troubling thing about Wonder Woman: its willingness to suggest that war could not be our responsibility but someone else's. I was glad, for that reason, that they did not choose the Second World War as their setting.

While I think your last bit there acknowledges that WWI was a war where opposing sides could fall into each others arms (see Joyeux Noel), I also think your broader statement misreads the ending. It isn't saying Ares is dead and thus war is done, it is precisely saying Ares had nothing to do with it and war will continue. That is the test Ares presents to Diana. Can she still fight for them knowing they are flawed, not just corrupted by Ares. That the Germans who are left start hugging the Americans there is because that battle is so completely and utterly over they see no need to fight and are just happy to be alive.

You're right up until the point where second Ares shows up. Diana's realisation that killing Ares wouldn't change the fundamental nature of people stems from her having shiskebabed fake Ares. The reveal that he wasn't the real thing invalidates that epiphany and suggests that people might indeed have been corrupted by real Ares. Nothing in the last scenes indicates that war will still go one, except that we know it will, and the only thing we get to see is people falling into each other's arms. If the movie meant for Diana's realisation to remain true, it should have done something to show it.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 09, 2017, 03:48:31 AM
I think she deserved a better villain in terms of directly challenging her innocence/na´vetÚ/hubris - like a Gene Hackman Lex Luther.  A decent villain makes the win that much sweeter.

The idea of the villain was fine for that purpose, he was just poorly conceived and written, like everything else in the movie.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 09, 2017, 06:04:00 AM
Completely forgot to mention the fact that the entire movie is in English and they couldn't be bothered to make anyone speak German for two seconds, not to mention the moronic ancient civilisation who speaks every language on Earth trope.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Teproc on June 09, 2017, 07:04:18 AM
Completely forgot to mention the fact that the entire movie is in English and they couldn't be bothered to make anyone speak German for two seconds, not to mention the moronic ancient civilisation who speaks every language on Earth trope.

I'm fine with the Amazons speaking every language, but why do they speak to each other in English ? And why bother justifying it and not letting be an abstraction, if you're then going to have Germans also speaking in English and - for maximum absurdity - Chris Pine "speaking German" by affecting a comical German accent but still speaking English ? This after having characters actually using different languages, including German ?

It's offensively stupid, is what it is. If you don't have the guts to put subtitles in your freaking film because you think people are too dumb to read, just use English as an abstraction and be done with it, spare us the dumb accents.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 09, 2017, 08:42:36 AM
And for the love of Zeus, pick one logic and stick to it.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Sam the Cinema Snob on June 09, 2017, 08:48:45 AM
I just want more subtitles in big action movies so I can call BS on all the people who say they can't watch foreign films because of the subtitles.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on June 09, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
Why would you want to? Avoiding subtitles is at least as bad as avoiding movies without big explosions in them.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: ststevens on July 04, 2017, 01:25:30 PM
I think the ending would have been better if they hadn't killed off Ludendorf at the beginning of the sequence. I actually was a fan of the initial introduction of Ares - I liked the idea of him acting as just a catalyst for humanity's darker impulses, and I liked David Thewlis' calm, quiet reveal (though I still don't really understand his whole "I'm gonna help arrange an armistace so the humans can undermine it" plan). But then they just went ahead and turned him into a generic armored hulk who looked indistinguishable from several other DC and Marvel villains. I think if they'd left Ludendorf alive, and had him lead an assault of heavy weaponry against Diana while Ares just stands off to the side, calmly building up the mayhem, it would have gelled more with the concept of war that had been running throughout the film.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: oldkid on July 04, 2017, 02:22:53 PM
After the first scene with David Thewlis, my wife whispers to me, "He's the real bad guy."  I whispered back that I couldn't accept that because he's such a great character actor and I love his other characters.  At the end, she tells me, "Told ja."

I believe that Diana's epiphany of the corruption of humanity holds despite her having killed the "wrong" Ares.  It is just that Steve's sacrifice helped her understand the dual moralities of humanity, and that the only hope is in love.  The killing of the Germans is to show how she too gets caught up in the corruption of war.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: MartinTeller on July 04, 2017, 11:57:10 PM
Oh yeah, I knew Thewlis was the bad guy almost immediately. If only because you could tell there was going to be a "surprise" bad guy and he was the most likely candidate.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: 1SO on July 06, 2017, 12:12:47 AM
After the first scene with David Thewlis, my wife whispers to me, "He's the real bad guy."  I whispered back that I couldn't accept that because he's such a great character actor and I love his other characters.  At the end, she tells me, "Told ja."
My wife did the same. I just didn't want to accept it because they were so thorough at setting up Danny Huston and Doctor Poison to the point where I didn't want and no longer needed a surprise villain.

I wish Wonder Woman didn't have her lengthy internal struggle while holding a tank over her head. It's one of those things I don't like about DC. The characters lack vulnerability so that WW can get thrown all around the airfield without a mark on her bare skin and she can just hold a tank over her head while debating the decision of her life.  Compare that to Hulk tossing Loki about until even he has difficulty moving from the imprint his body has made in the floor.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: Will on July 06, 2017, 01:39:16 AM
I saw it a mile away. The look he gives her is all I needed. Excellent foreshadowing. Very subtle.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: oldkid on July 06, 2017, 03:28:52 AM
Mrs oldkid high-fives Mrs 1SO.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on July 06, 2017, 04:15:13 AM
I never knew your wives were all part of the same club.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: don s. on February 20, 2018, 07:25:26 PM
It's god-awful.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarthNibbles on March 14, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
Yeah, I know I'm late to the party despite seeing this in theatres and buying it the day it was available at home, but whatever. Y'all are wrong :D

First (or second?) let me say that I, as a rule, don't watch comic book movies. I gave up on them a few years ago; why bother going to see a movie, and then complaining how how awful it is to everyone? Just let them enjoy their popcorn flicks, and I'll enjoy movies with decent writers.

But man... 2017 was a good year. Wonder Woman, Logan, and Thor: Ragnarok all managed to surprise and delight me (each for different reasons, of course).

Anyway.. WW. This movie was a study in contradictions. On the one hand, you have Diana's hopeless naivete about the nature of evil, and it's heartbreaking to watch her realize just how shitty humanity really is. But then they whip out Ares, and let her have a CGI god-smack anyway :D

The final battle against Ares had to occur after Diana's disillusionment, because the whole point is that she's willing to fight to defend humanity in spite of our flaws, in spite of the fact that we don't deserve her help or protection.
Likewise, she had to kill Ares specifically so that there isn't some all-powerful God of War out there corrupting the hearts of men. If Ares had remained alive then it would have left open the possibility that our continued wars were simply more of his doing. The fact that our wars continue without Ares' influence, but that Diana keeps on doing her thing anyway, is what I loved most about the character.

The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe. Good and evil are more subtle than that, and humanity is more complex. Wonder Woman (the movie) embraces that complexity by showing that killing the "villain" doesn't end evil and doesn't "save the world." It also admits that sometimes killing the villain is exactly what's needed.
(Case in point: Dr Poison standing ahead and to WW's left, WW holding a tank. "You're wrong about them," she says to Ares, then throws the tank - where? - ahead and to her left. She tells the villain he's wrong about humans being evil and then drops a tank on Dr Poison anyway. Because even if humanity on the whole isn't wholly evil {or wholly good}, there are individuals who lean more to one side than another).

While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"), I saw enough bits and pieces of both Suicide Squad and Dawn of Justice on TV to make skip watching those movies entirely. I don't expect to get many movies that I enjoy based on comic books, but I'm glad for this one.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: 1SO on March 14, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
Yeah, I know I'm late to the party despite seeing this in theatres and buying it the day it was available at home, but whatever. Y'all are wrong :D
I'm already lost since people here were all over the scale on WW. There's no way Totoro and me can both be wrong.


First (or second?) let me say that I, as a rule, don't watch comic book movies. I gave up on them a few years ago; why bother going to see a movie, and then complaining how how awful it is to everyone? Just let them enjoy their popcorn flicks, and I'll enjoy movies with decent writers.
Comic Book movies are at such a saturation point that not watching them must be like not watching Animated films. It limits your options in ways (mostly good) I can't wrap my head around. Certainly frees you up for some good exploration. However, I will disagree with you about the quality of writing for comic book movies, especially in 2017. I'm still trying to figure out how Spider-Man: Homecoming had such quality writing when there are 6 credited writers.


Anyway.. WW. This movie was a study in contradictions. On the one hand, you have Diana's hopeless naivete about the nature of evil, and it's heartbreaking to watch her realize just how shitty humanity really is. But then they whip out Ares, and let her have a CGI god-smack anyway :D
Sounds like I'm right so far.


The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe.
I'm not familiar with this moment in Star Wars. Which film are you referring to?


While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"),
This also sounds like the last 20 minutes of Wonder Woman.


I saw enough bits and pieces of both Suicide Squad and Dawn of Justice on TV to make skip watching those movies entirely.
Watching both of these films was like having a kidney cut out. Watching Justice League wasn't quite as good a choice as giving an orphan a puppy - I hope I'm using that metaphor correctly. - but emulating The Avengers is a step in the right direction for the DCEU.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarkeningHumour on March 15, 2018, 06:05:28 AM
Justice League is at least as bad as Dawn. Worse, in my opinion, despite the Whedonisms.

Old Republic refers to a series of video games. They have better writing than your average SW movie.

I don't deny WW sets up interesting questions, dichotomies, paradoxes, and what have yous. I only deny they are very well treated. The end of the movie is a mess of a message. She kills Ares, but that doesn't change humanity, but that doesn't mean anytihng because he wasn't Ares after all, then Ares gets a villain monologue that answers no questions at all and things go downhill from there.
Title: Re: Wonder Woman
Post by: DarthNibbles on March 15, 2018, 06:12:56 AM
I'm already lost since people here were all over the scale on WW. There's no way Totoro and me can both be wrong.
Fair enough, I read the first two pages and skimmed the rest, but it seemed the consensus here was that most people didn't like WW. I apologize for misunderstanding your opinion.

The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe.
I'm not familiar with this moment in Star Wars. Which film are you referring to?
Knights of the Old Republic is a video game, an RPG, based on the Star Wars universe. They advertise allowing the player to make meaningful choices that affect the story, but their representation of good and evil is so cartoonishly exaggerated as to be laughable. The example wasn't meant as a specific moment but rather as a representation of how many artists working in media represent the concept of a choice.

I've never been given to a Manichean view of the universe, so that kind of choice holds no interest for me. That's why I liked Diana's struggle in this film: even though she picked a side in the war, it's not like that side was full of saints.

While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"),
This also sounds like the last 20 minutes of Wonder Woman.
Yes, but it was only 20 minutes of the film, as opposed to 2 hours 20 minutes like in Age of Ultron (the film that made me mostly quit on Marvel). If it were the whole point of the movie I wouldn't care for it; being a piece of the film it fits, especially within the progression of Diana's arc. She begins hopelessly naive and optimistic, she because disappointed but is still optimistic, she becomes disillusioned and wants to give up, then she becomes hopeful again.