Author Topic: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame  (Read 70188 times)

jbissell

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Andrzej Wajda - Kanal
« Reply #410 on: December 19, 2011, 02:29:29 PM »
Kanal
A lot of Kanal reminded me of a submarine film, where the crew has no weapons and are trapped in a watery grave, waiting for the enemy to destroy them. The direction is pitched somewhere between punishing and exciting, and after a slow start I liked the film quite a bit.

Glad you liked it. The submarine is a good comparison, especially when things start to get absolutely suffocating.

Are you watching the Criterion Wajda box w Kanal, Ashes & Diamonds, and A Generation? I'm definitely curious to hear your thoughts on A&D as it's my favorite of the 3. A Generation is a very good debut with some great shots, though not approaching the level of greatness of Kanal or A&D. I'd like to revisit them before updating my top 100 list next year.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 02:32:48 PM by jbissell »

1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Andrzej Wajda - Kanal
« Reply #411 on: December 19, 2011, 07:27:33 PM »
Are you watching the Criterion Wajda box w Kanal, Ashes & Diamonds, and A Generation?

I'm getting them individually from my local arthouse rental store. Have no plans to see A Generation.

1SO

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1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Andrzej Wajda - Ashes and Diamonds
« Reply #412 on: December 24, 2011, 12:33:08 AM »
Marathon Update



Ashes and Diamonds

Quote from: MartinTeller
This is supposed to be one of the great Wajda films, but it's my least favorite of the three I've seen.  Too political for my tastes, and most of it is dull as dirt.  Nice lighting and framing, though.  Rating: 6

I agree. Glad I didn't watch this first or I might have skipped Kanal. This time Wajda has more of a satirical edge, but he lays on the politics thick in a state dinner subplot that's just one long platform of preaching to us. The rest is a blunt, though well-photographed war tale in the style of The Fireman's Ball. (Not that funny, but then again not that good either.) I stayed with it okay, and kept wanting to like it, but none of the storylines went anywhere. After burning a lot of time, two climaxes are both really well-done and exciting like nothing else in the film. Kanal was thoroughly gripping and relentless. This was the opposite.
RATING: * *

1SO

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1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Frederick Wiseman - Titicut Follies
« Reply #413 on: December 25, 2011, 02:39:40 AM »
Marathon Update

Titicut Follies

Quote from: Bondo
by focusing more on those scenes I found exploitative and less on discussions of the facility staff, I think he didn’t use the time he had very effectively.

A new director and an approach to documentary filmmaking that's very new to me. In an age when every documentary filmmaker is upfront about his intentions, the hands-off style of Wiseman is something I'd only seen before in Children Underground. It's a style that's difficult to pull off now that we've seen how the simple presence of a camera changes the attitudes and arguments of the people in the room. They are no longer just living. They are performing. Makes me wonder how Wiseman was able to capture what he does here, not so much with the inmates but with the mentally aware people who run this institution.

There are effective scenes (such as the forced eating), and a general sense of the impossibility of actually getting help of any quality in a place like this. Beyond that, I had a Bondo of a time getting through. While I can appreciate the lack of a clear agenda, most scenes ended with me going "what was the point of that?" I hoped as the scenes piled up they would form a bigger picture that would shed some light for me. Instead I just felt relief when the credits appeared.
RATING: * 1/2

I need to see more Wiseman before I can get a clearer understanding of his methods. On to High School.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 12:22:44 AM by 1SO »

jbissell

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Frederick Wiseman - Titicut Follies
« Reply #414 on: December 27, 2011, 02:20:52 AM »
Titicut Follies
While I can appreciate the lack of a clear agenda, most scenes ended with me going "what was the point of that?" I hoped as the scenes piled up they would form a bigger picture that would shed some light for me. Instead I just felt relief when the credits appeared.
RATING: * 1/2

Ouch, not a fan of two films I like a whole lot. Can't say much about Ashes until I rewatch it, but I do remember it being much slower than Kanal.

RE: a bigger picture - I thought the scenes worked to form the bigger picture that this is a highly flawed system that strips people of their humanity. I thought Welfare served a similar purpose, although it does provide more of a "complete" picture because we get a little more insight into the workers as well.

Bondo

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame
« Reply #415 on: December 27, 2011, 07:44:24 AM »
See, that's one of the things that stopped me on Titicut, I kept being told that it was showing how terrible things were and I kept not seeing anything that was unexplainably terrible.

MartinTeller

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame
« Reply #416 on: December 27, 2011, 12:04:09 PM »
I would jump in, but I think Bondo and I already had this discussion.

jbissell

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame
« Reply #417 on: December 27, 2011, 02:50:25 PM »
I would jump in, but I think Bondo and I already had this discussion.
I would jump in, but I think Bondo and I already had this discussion.

I'll see if I can find your discussion about it as it does sound familiar.

Bondo

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Re: 1SO vs. The Directors of Shame
« Reply #418 on: December 27, 2011, 02:53:57 PM »
It took place following my review.

1SO

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1SO vs. The Directors of Shame: Frederick Wiseman - High School
« Reply #419 on: January 05, 2012, 07:37:15 PM »
Marathon Update


High School

In 2008 I watched the high school documentary American Teen and I liked it a lot. Sure I was aware of the manipulation by the filmmakers. There are frickin' animated dream sequences in it. However, the filmmakers did get to some real truths about the social tortures of high school and there were revealing moments so honest they couldn't possibly be believed in a fictional narrative format. The film took a lot of guff - A Lot - because the mere presence of cameras would exclude any moments of honesty. The film manipulated itself into a story with dramatic climaxes and comic relief.

I'm not laying the groundwork to be reactionary and bluntly ask how come Frederick Wiseman gets a pass when his cameras are in the small rooms and right up against the people's faces. Times were different back then. The Real World and reality television changed people's reactions to the presence of a camera. Also, Wiseman isn't trying to tell a story but create a snapshot of moments he found interesting and wanted to share. So the argument doesn't hold true to both films equally. Still, I feel people were too hard on the newer and too lenient on the older.

Some of the scenes took me back, reminding me that things didn't change so much between 1968 and when I went to High School 20 years later. More and more though, I was drawn to the differences. The relaxed or misguided teaching methods. The separate instruction for boys and girls. The lack of political correctness. Using Simon and Garfunkel to teach poetry. I'm curious if Wiseman thought these moments to be unusual or typical back when he filmed them. At its best High School is like someone who found a bunch of footage and wanted to show the more unusual things that were considered proper teaching at one time.

What I take from Wiseman is a better understanding of how documentaries used to be. I'm sure there were plenty of docs back then that had an agenda and a slanted opinion, but finding one so hands off today is... well you're just not going to. That being said, this is not the kind of documentary I enjoy or even much appreciate. I say "appreciate" because of my questioning the honesty of the footage, just like with American Teen. (I'd be less skeptical if the film was more unobtrusive long shots like Children Underground.) Less than 10 years later, Barbara Kopple released Harlan County U.S.A, my benchmark example of why I prefer a doc where the filmmaker has an opinion. It paved the way for Michael Moore, but it also let in Werner Herzog, whose commentary would be a welcome addition to this footage.
RATING: * * 1/2

p.s. This review obviously shows my limited knowledge of the evolution of documentaries. I didn't have time to do thorough research on slanted and unslanted docs through the decades. I hope my points got across anyway.