[Melvil]

But, you have to admit, Elephant must be effective in some way, because we are all spending so much effort talking about it.  If nothing else, it is not a neutral film.

Yeah, I guess that's...something.

[Clovis8]

The point Keith was making, and I agree with, is that his experimental films are pure Rorshach. They tell us more about ourselves than any narrative details. Some will watch Elephant and find his exploitation of stereotypes repulsive while others will think he is showing possible motives for the violence. The film splits its audience into the two camps which already exist. This is not a failure of the film but its success.

I think we understood Keith's point, and I'm not sure what I think of it, myself.  I just purchased the DVD, so I probably will watch it again soon and chime in on this.  But, again, I think that Melvil's  (check spelling... got it) is outside of what Keith is speaking of.  It is not disgust at the point of what GVS is supposed to be making, but disgust that there is no point at all.  This response tells Melvil nothing about himself-- except his blindness at being unable to see what a fantastic film this is.  If he had been angry at GVS at a message or a moral lapse, then it would support Keith's interpretation.  But for M to say "it's poor film making" is to say there IS no moral point, there is nothing to make a point from.  And then, if GVS is intending to stir an artistic reaction to the film, he failed in Melvil's case.

I think we need to look at his experimental films differently than other films. The story/narrative is almost irrelevant (Gerry being a prime example of this). These films are all about the meta and subtext. Therefore, commenting that someone hated the parade of stereotypes means the film is succeeding on some level. Failure here is, in fact, success!

Part of this subtext comes from the fact that he roots his experimental films in a well known cultural milieu (school shootings, Kurt Cobain). We all bring so much shared baggage to the film they do not need a deep narrative.

[oldkid]

But, you have to admit, Elephant must be effective in some way, because we are all spending so much effort talking about it.

The Hannah Montana: The Movie thread contains 121 posts, so I assume that's a more effective movie. 

I'm no help here at all.

pixote

Pix, Chaos Jedi

[Melvil]

Failure here is, in fact, success!

I've gotta admit, it's a brilliant business model.

[Clovis8]

Failure here is, in fact, success!

I've gotta admit, it's a brilliant business model.

That's art for you!   This discussion is making me rethink my position on Funny Games and thinking it is going for the same thing as Van Sant's experimental films. Perhaps I misjudged Funny Games.

[CSSCHNEIDER]

Star Trek:  The Motion Picture

My housemates are on a quest to rewatch all the Star Trek films in order.  I had never seen this, so I jumped in.  Its not bad, really epic in its photography of the ship, but ultimately really boring.  Dozed off a few times, and thankfully my friend woke me.  I enjoyed it to a certain extent but I can't really praise it very much.

Grade B

[mañana]

The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski, 1991)

If The Reader is Oscar bait, then this one is Cannes bait. It’s stunning to look at and Kieslowski photographs Irene Jacob beautifully, but I dunno that kind of thing doesn’t hold my attention the way it does other people. I guess the whole metaphysical thing didn’t really turn my crank, the internet tells me it was an exploration of identity or something. Sure, I’ll buy that. Not that I need things to always be narrative driven, far from it, but for whatever reason nothing really drew me in in a big way. Anyway, it was pretty enough and there were enough good moments to get a good grade.
Grade: B-   

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (Gordon, 2007)

A second viewing. I liked it the first time, but I’m actually more impressed with it this time around. Upon the first viewing I was hung up on whether or not the subjects were being mocked, and I now think I was being way too cautious. Also the good v evil framing device, although perhaps simple, is perfectly executed. At times “Steve as the nice guy” seemed too uncomplicated; while he certainly is a nice guy, there were times when I thought he should just turn that thing off and go read to his kids or something. And it kind of felt like the film let him off the hook a bit because the makers want him to be their hero. Anyway, great movie nonetheless. 
Grade: A-

The Passion of Joan of Arc (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1928)

Close-ups! Felt far less like homework than I expected. Really beautiful but also hypnotic and completely engrossing. The last ten minutes are harrowing. I watched it with the music on, was I right or wrong to do that? 
Grade: A

[Verite]

Speaking of Gus Van Sant's Elephant, has anyone seen Alan Clarke's Elephant (EDIT: even more spare narrative-wise than GVS's) or Bela Tarr films (EDIT: specifically Damnation, Satantango, or Werckmeister Harmonies)?

[Fugee]

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (Gordon, 2007)

A second viewing. I liked it the first time, but I’m actually more impressed with it this time around. Upon the first viewing I was hung up on whether or not the subjects were being mocked, and I now think I was being way too cautious. Also the good v evil framing device, although perhaps simple, is perfectly executed. At times “Steve as the nice guy” seemed too uncomplicated; while he certainly is a nice guy, there were times when I thought he should just turn that thing off and go read to his kids or something. And it kind of felt like the film let him off the hook a bit because the makers want him to be their hero. Anyway, great movie nonetheless. 
Grade: A-

That is a perfect screencap you have there. I agree with your take as well!

[mañana]

The Passion of Joan of Arc (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1928)
http://i38.tinypic.com/1z5i0lj.png
Close-ups! Felt far less like homework than I expected. Really beautiful but also hypnotic and completely engrossing. The last ten minutes are harrowing. I watched it with the music on, was I right or wrong to do that? 
Grade: A

I love the final scenes. A masterclass in composition and editing. Music on? Dunno, I watched it with it off...

It was 30 minutes in before I realized the music wasn't original, but by then I figured I'd just go with it.

That is a perfect screencap you have there. I agree with your take as well!

Thanks. I have to confess though, I didn't take the screenshot, I forgot to get some before returning it to the store so I got that one off the internet.