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Author Topic: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary  (Read 10920 times)

mrbadexample

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 08:06:55 PM »
I've just started listening to the show, I thought the the list of good remakes last week was terrific, this show was sort of a letdown. Roger Rabbit is "Gonzo"? What about "Chopper"? How did they overlook just about every character in "Trainspotting"? "Sid and Nancy", "Freddy Got Fingered", "Quick Change","Drugstore Cowboy", "The Big Lebowski", "The Long Goodbye", "The Matador"... all have characters, some even female, which exemplify the spirit of Gonzo a tad better than a cartoon character - or Borat for that matter. Calling Borat "Gonzo" totally misses the point, it is broad, superficial comedy not the implied, enduring and utterly irreconcilable anger and distaste for "normality" as defined by society, gonzo is not a critique it is a lifestyle. Finally, how can you call "Killgore" Gonzo? Especially when in the same movie both Brando to some extent but ESPECIALLY Dennis Hopper (RIP) gives a performance that could be said to exemplify a gonzo character/type? I got the feeling the hosts were out of there depth, not intellectually so much as culturally, maybe it's better to stick to what you know. BTW - Rum Diary is an abomination, I was glad to hear they disliked it.
Can't put Big Lebowski, Drugstore Cowboy and The Long Goodbye in every top 5. They've all gotten plenty of praise. You shouldn't assume we 'overlooked' some of your choices... though, admittedly, that always happens... It's a top 5. I picked my 5 favorite. It doesn't mean I only had 5 options.

Additionally, it's not always about the characters... it's about the movies. Chopper is a GREAT Gonzo character. I personally don't love Chopper, which means it will be hard for that film to make a top 5.
\

"Well, Excuse me all over the place"... - I didn't know Lebowski et al had gotten so much attention on your show, but that goes to shows to go ya' got good taste. Did you consider Gould in "California Split"? Something of a Precambrian Gonzo but Gonzo nevertheless ... and where the heck was M*A*S*H when your secret discussions took place?  :o

Adam

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 10:17:01 PM »
I've just started listening to the show, I thought the the list of good remakes last week was terrific, this show was sort of a letdown. Roger Rabbit is "Gonzo"? What about "Chopper"? How did they overlook just about every character in "Trainspotting"? "Sid and Nancy", "Freddy Got Fingered", "Quick Change","Drugstore Cowboy", "The Big Lebowski", "The Long Goodbye", "The Matador"... all have characters, some even female, which exemplify the spirit of Gonzo a tad better than a cartoon character - or Borat for that matter. Calling Borat "Gonzo" totally misses the point, it is broad, superficial comedy not the implied, enduring and utterly irreconcilable anger and distaste for "normality" as defined by society, gonzo is not a critique it is a lifestyle. Finally, how can you call "Killgore" Gonzo? Especially when in the same movie both Brando to some extent but ESPECIALLY Dennis Hopper (RIP) gives a performance that could be said to exemplify a gonzo character/type? I got the feeling the hosts were out of there depth, not intellectually so much as culturally, maybe it's better to stick to what you know. BTW - Rum Diary is an abomination, I was glad to hear they disliked it.
Can't put Big Lebowski, Drugstore Cowboy and The Long Goodbye in every top 5. They've all gotten plenty of praise. You shouldn't assume we 'overlooked' some of your choices... though, admittedly, that always happens... It's a top 5. I picked my 5 favorite. It doesn't mean I only had 5 options.

Additionally, it's not always about the characters... it's about the movies. Chopper is a GREAT Gonzo character. I personally don't love Chopper, which means it will be hard for that film to make a top 5.
\

"Well, Excuse me all over the place"... - I didn't know Lebowski et al had gotten so much attention on your show, but that goes to shows to go ya' got good taste. Did you consider Gould in "California Split"? Something of a Precambrian Gonzo but Gonzo nevertheless ... and where the heck was M*A*S*H when your secret discussions took place?  :o
Lebowski is in our Pantheon. Have to leave it out of the top 5's.

Long Goodbye is another favorite. Not going to lie, I did overlook it... otherwise, Marlowe would have made my top 5. I may need to start running my top 5's by you before recording.
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Sandy

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 10:55:40 PM »
 :D

mrbadexample

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 09:49:39 AM »
Have been perusing the "Pantheon" Top 100 movies list, I can see now why you avoided Lebowski but I have to say I was quite shocked to see "Eternal Sunshine", and "There Will Be Blood" so high up, frankly I was surprised to see them there at all. If they can make the top 100 but "Hard 8" is missing than I guess "Inception" must be the greatest mind bending think piece ever ... In any case, back on topic, so why did you guys soft pedal "Naked"? Not trying to sound indignant but I'm surprised nobody has called you out for describing what is clearly rape as angry sex or something like that. I realize this is a "family" show (bleeping out "gook") but how does utterly mischaracterizing Johnny do anybody any favors, I think you can afford to be less prudish in future, Rape is a horrible thing but it is not a bleepable word, got to have the courage of your convictions after all.

saltine

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 11:16:08 AM »
Have been perusing the "Pantheon" Top 100 movies list, I can see now why you avoided Lebowski but I have to say I was quite shocked to see "Eternal Sunshine", and "There Will Be Blood" so high up, frankly I was surprised to see them there at all. If they can make the top 100 but "Hard 8" is missing than I guess "Inception" must be the greatest mind bending think piece ever ...

Let me clarify for you that the Filmspotting hosts didn't form that Top 100 Movies Pantheon list that you're accessing at the forum.  That was formed by forum members only.  The Pantheon which Adam referenced is at our site, Filmspotting.net.
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Adam

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 01:34:53 PM »
Have been perusing the "Pantheon" Top 100 movies list, I can see now why you avoided Lebowski but I have to say I was quite shocked to see "Eternal Sunshine", and "There Will Be Blood" so high up, frankly I was surprised to see them there at all. If they can make the top 100 but "Hard 8" is missing than I guess "Inception" must be the greatest mind bending think piece ever ... In any case, back on topic, so why did you guys soft pedal "Naked"? Not trying to sound indignant but I'm surprised nobody has called you out for describing what is clearly rape as angry sex or something like that. I realize this is a "family" show (bleeping out "gook") but how does utterly mischaracterizing Johnny do anybody any favors, I think you can afford to be less prudish in future, Rape is a horrible thing but it is not a bleepable word, got to have the courage of your convictions after all.
You're reading way too much into it. If I was vague, it's because I haven't seen that scene in 15 years. I can't imagine though anybody thought I was classifying Johnny as anything but a monster. Human and pathetic as he might be.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 01:39:02 PM by Adam »
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mrbadexample

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 04:16:15 PM »
Have been perusing the "Pantheon" Top 100 movies list, I can see now why you avoided Lebowski but I have to say I was quite shocked to see "Eternal Sunshine", and "There Will Be Blood" so high up, frankly I was surprised to see them there at all. If they can make the top 100 but "Hard 8" is missing than I guess "Inception" must be the greatest mind bending think piece ever ... In any case, back on topic, so why did you guys soft pedal "Naked"? Not trying to sound indignant but I'm surprised nobody has called you out for describing what is clearly rape as angry sex or something like that. I realize this is a "family" show (bleeping out "gook") but how does utterly mischaracterizing Johnny do anybody any favors, I think you can afford to be less prudish in future, Rape is a horrible thing but it is not a bleepable word, got to have the courage of your convictions after all.
You're reading way too much into it. If I was vague, it's because I haven't seen that scene in 15 years. I can't imagine though anybody thought I was classifying Johnny as anything but a monster. Human and pathetic as he might be.

Okay, no biggie but I'm not reading into it, it was just something which struck me as really odd and if it was unintentional then that is fine but you have to admit it that referring to the rape/sex assault which begins the film without actually using those terms does a disservice to the listening audience. I mean, would you describe Irreversible's infamous sequence as a bad date? Johnny is fun to watch, but Johnny is also a rapist, this is not intended as a prissy, PC point, rather it is Leigh's deliberate attempt to make Nihilism seductive and disturbing, which he accomplishes with great skill in the character of Johnny. Anybody listening to what you said would not think to regard the movie and Johnny as anything other than a "funny" character in a somewhat dark tale of a philanderer. Why watch that? I am patently not implying that unconsciously you approve of the character's actions or any such drivel, I just think that you can't say it's not important, even crucial to the movie that we know Johnny is a rapist, describing him otherwise eviscerates the movie and character. Is he a monster, I don't know, he commits a monstrous deed with utter insouciance but maybe human and pathetic is closer to the truth than monster.

I guess my overarching point is that we shouldn't succumb to bowdlerization when having discussions about interesting films, nor should we have to frame fictional constructs, be they character or story or whatever with insipid moral clauses, stumble over definitions and grope for meaning when speaking plainly and to the point will do nicely and get to the heart of the matter so real discussions can proceed apace.

Adam

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 08:41:48 PM »
I am patently not implying that unconsciously you approve of the character's actions or any such drivel, I just think that you can't say it's not important, even crucial to the movie that we know Johnny is a rapist, describing him otherwise eviscerates the movie and character.
Poor choice of phrasing or whatever you want to argue, in no way was I out to suggest he wasn't a rapist.

And with that, we've hit that point where the dealer politely steps away from the table, turns his hands over and says goodnight everyone.
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mrbadexample

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Character / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2011, 09:33:16 PM »
I am patently not implying that unconsciously you approve of the character's actions or any such drivel, I just think that you can't say it's not important, even crucial to the movie that we know Johnny is a rapist, describing him otherwise eviscerates the movie and character.
Poor choice of phrasing or whatever you want to argue, in no way was I out to suggest he wasn't a rapist.

And with that, we've hit that point where the dealer politely steps away from the table, turns his hands over and says goodnight everyone.

Look, it's your show, have it any way you want, but these are your words verbatim "This movie starts with him (Johnny) having this bizarre, angry, violent sexual encounter in an alley in Manchester". Now, I don't think I need to put too fine a point on it but there is nothing illegal or even necessarily depraved (your views on sex may differ) IMO about having a " bizarre, angry, violent sexual encounter in an alley" so long as all parties are consenting adults. I'm going to let this drop, but it's a gentlemanly thing I'm doing, not conceding your point. You did, in fact, deliberately or not obscure the fact he is a rapist. How do I know this? Well, because IMDB (am objective source) describes the movie thusly: Johnny flees Manchester for London, to avoid a beating from the family of a girl he has raped. That is not an equivalent statement to the one you made, it is not even close. I think maybe you're just a tad arrogant and not going to admit you made a mistake, that's fine. Carry on.

Adam

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Re: FS #371: Top 5 Gonzo Characters / Martha Marcy... / Rum Diary
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2011, 09:41:02 PM »
I am patently not implying that unconsciously you approve of the character's actions or any such drivel, I just think that you can't say it's not important, even crucial to the movie that we know Johnny is a rapist, describing him otherwise eviscerates the movie and character.
Poor choice of phrasing or whatever you want to argue, in no way was I out to suggest he wasn't a rapist.

And with that, we've hit that point where the dealer politely steps away from the table, turns his hands over and says goodnight everyone.

Look, it's your show, have it any way you want, but these are your words verbatim "This movie starts with him (Johnny) having this bizarre, angry, violent sexual encounter in an alley in Manchester". Now, I don't think I need to put too fine a point on it but there is nothing illegal or even necessarily depraved (your views on sex may differ) IMO about having a " bizarre, angry, violent sexual encounter in an alley" so long as all parties are consenting adults. I'm going to let this drop, but it's a gentlemanly thing I'm doing, not conceding your point. You did, in fact, deliberately or not obscure the fact he is a rapist. How do I know this? Well, because IMDB (am objective source) describes the movie thusly: Johnny flees Manchester for London, to avoid a beating from the family of a girl he has raped. That is not an equivalent statement to the one you made, it is not even close. I think maybe you're just a tad arrogant and not going to admit you made a mistake, that's fine. Carry on.
No, in fact I've admitted that I was too vague and could have phrased it better. I'm simply not going to continue beating this horse nor do I understand your compulsion to do so. I'm done, you've won. It's one unscripted line in a 70 minute show.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 09:47:46 PM by Adam »
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