Author Topic: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)  (Read 10169 times)

FLYmeatwad

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2012, 03:48:10 PM »
I would say that reading is the only one I can arrive at without the film undercutting itself or using the divorce as the only "separation" in the film; however, I'm not sure where that positions the maid as she seems even more of a strict traditionalist than anyone else in the film. Certainly she is much more say than the main man, though he is also not as contemporary as the mother. I then arrive at the problem of the mother being mostly underdeveloped as a character as well. Perhaps that makes sense since new identity is underdeveloped and uncertain, but I'm not sure that there is enough evidence in the film for it to serve as personally fulfilling.

Hollow is not the correct word to use, but A Separation certainly seems thematically shallow to me.

smirnoff

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2012, 02:24:59 PM »
what you have is an unusual kitchen sink thriller, something akin to a Haneke film where morals are being subverted and you are asked to take sides, and where information is being fed to you and you are happy to know you aren't getting the full picture just enough for a terrific story.

That's it precisely. An absurd legal and moral obstacle course in a country where "law" is a judge's whim and defending yourself is entirely your own responsibility. Although here you have a director who actually knows how to cut a thriller... Haneke just keeps a scene going until he here's the *flap flap flap* of the empty reel.

I have a few complaints however.

First:
3. All the shots of characters and events behind glass made for the most effective 'separation' of the entire film.

This was way too on the nose and staged for me. There were a few times where it didn't linger long and seemed like just a matter of circumstance, but most of the time it was too much. Also they repeated it far too often. How often and how long did they expect me to roll the word "separation" around in my head for? All it did was remind me I was watching a movie.

Second problem, the ending. It's like the wheels falling off a stunt car just before it hits the ramp. Instead of sailing courageously through the air for a chance at glory it flops into some kind of stasis. It didn't even have the nerve to end abruptly. I might've settled for the non-ending if it snapped off, but even this was too much to ask. It goes trailing on through the entire credits. Oh... wait... I take back what I said about not being like Haneke. Bah!

I just think the film abandons what was working so well for it. Thrills, emotional tension, high stakes... you don't whip out the old maid in the middle of a poker game. C'mon man!

Still a good film but it reminds me too much of this.

verbALs

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 03:01:34 PM »
I keep thinking in terms of Criticker ratings now (thanks 3As). I'd go an 83 which puts it into "classic" (I very geekily changed all the labels on the tiers, because I am a ....geek).

This Haneke comparison has legs. His talent for suspense in his thrillers is always nailed to the ground by which I mean, there is no confection. It's all a slice of life, not a slice of cake, (see below). A Separation sets the same ground rules and sticks to them. Now for a thriller, and a 90s thriller buff like the noffster, this lack of confection just don't fly. Glenn Close sitting back up in the bath just isn't going to happen here.

It doesn't harm my enjoyment of this film the same way you indicated but I am becoming less enured to films running on ultra-realistic tracks. It's like chucking half the film-making toolbox away. It might explain why the separation metaphor was grating, because it introduces an element of theatrical artifice into an "otherwise" dead straight film.

[/wild theorising on very thin grounds]

{goes to Criticker to add my A Separation score}
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 03:25:31 PM by verbALs »
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smirnoff

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 04:50:31 PM »
:)) at the Glenn Close mention. You make a good distinction though.

I guess in this case I would call the ending a form of "theatrical artifice" too. Like a score that comes on too strong and tips the director's hand (and as it happens, the ending is the one time A Separation decides to use some music).

I dunno... let the story speak for itself and all that.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 10:53:43 PM by smirnoff »

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 07:59:39 PM »
I don't really get the comparisons to Leigh at all (can't speak to Miller really, not sure if I've read anything of his). I agree that Leigh sometimes loses theme amid the focus on character, to the degree that he even cares about theme. But I just don't see that kind of character development in A Separation. They are developed no more than the story demands, which is often the problem, related to your complaint about the film withholding too much information for a grand reveal, something that bugged me a lot.



What? Tell me a film where the characters are... developed more than the story demands?  ???

To say this is to imply that subtext isn't what the script demands. That couldn't be more false.

maņana

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 12:20:39 PM »
This was good. Didn't expect it to be so writerly and dependant on plot revelations considering the love in certain circles. Not complaining, I liked it, just for some reason not what I was expecting.
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jbissell

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2012, 02:28:20 PM »
4. Same thing with the money. I mean, I assume the little girl took it, but she would have put it in her backpack and then the guy would have found it when he went through her stuff.

I believe we see the money disappear early on when the wife is packing up her stuff and she takes it. The only thing that makes me unsure about this is the fact that it's never mentioned between the two ever.

FLYmeatwad

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2012, 06:23:38 AM »
I thought the woman was getting paid daily, so it was always in the same spot.

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2012, 04:01:21 PM »

It might be stretching it a bit far but I do like Lobby's reading. The mom represents a kind of modernity and the father a traditionalism, using the sick grandfather (Iran) as an excuse to not move on with their life. There's stuff going on beneath the plot of A Separation.

Yay, at last someone who agrees with me!

I found this to be the film's central theme, which was especially a focal point in the classroom scene near the end when the two women meet to find a solution.  One has her garb off, the other worries about money linked to bad juju.  It's a central theme in Islamic countries, especially one such as Iran where there has always been an undercurrent of secularism after the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

I'm shocked that anyone could take this film as shallow (and not just you, FLY, just in general), but it's also possible that I (and others) see greater depth vs. just what's on the screen because of historical knowledge and experiences.

FLYmeatwad

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Re: A Separation (Asghar Farhadi, 2011)
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 09:19:45 AM »

It might be stretching it a bit far but I do like Lobby's reading. The mom represents a kind of modernity and the father a traditionalism, using the sick grandfather (Iran) as an excuse to not move on with their life. There's stuff going on beneath the plot of A Separation.

Yay, at last someone who agrees with me!

I found this to be the film's central theme, which was especially a focal point in the classroom scene near the end when the two women meet to find a solution.  One has her garb off, the other worries about money linked to bad juju.  It's a central theme in Islamic countries, especially one such as Iran where there has always been an undercurrent of secularism after the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

I'm shocked that anyone could take this film as shallow (and not just you, FLY, just in general), but it's also possible that I (and others) see greater depth vs. just what's on the screen because of historical knowledge and experiences.

I would say that reading is the only one I can arrive at without the film undercutting itself or using the divorce as the only "separation" in the film; however, I'm not sure where that positions the maid as she seems even more of a strict traditionalist than anyone else in the film. Certainly she is much more say than the main man, though he is also not as contemporary as the mother. I then arrive at the problem of the mother being mostly underdeveloped as a character as well. Perhaps that makes sense since new identity is underdeveloped and uncertain, but I'm not sure that there is enough evidence in the film for it to serve as personally fulfilling.

I'm not saying this isn't the most complex deal grappled with in the film, and again it's the only one I think that isn't inherently undercut by the script when considering different manifestations of the titular separation, but because the film is so concerned with pulling strings and having attention focus on the central conflict between old brigade and slightly newer but still clinging to traditionalist brigade rather than putting old and new in conflict or conversation with one another until the finale, I feel the idea is incredibly underdeveloped just like the mother character.

The constant focus on people behind glass reinforces, once again, this idea of separation, but if it is the lack of ability of this middle group to break from the traditionalists I don't see many points where the film directly grapples with that idea. Instead, it leaves it open to being one of the ideas it is interested in without ever actually pursuing it with much more than a few scenes sprinkled in here and there before moving on to focus on the separation between man and wife, daughter and father, daughter and mother, father and father, child and child, class and class, again without a focused sense of unity or completeness.

I think that's the fundamental problem I have with this film, is that it presents us with all these ideas and, perhaps even, themes it can be about while ultimately being about little more than what's on the surface.

 

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