Author Topic: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1  (Read 11183 times)

sdb_1970

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 02:57:51 PM »
Re: Bonus content

With regard to 'We Need to Talk About Kevin', to Adam and Josh: *SPOILERS START*... I wish I could live in your world, where there are no children who clearly exhibit psychopathic or sociopathic traits, yet whose parents are not psychopaths or sociopaths themselves.  I mean, if a child commits mass murder, it must be the result of bullying, etc., and if it's not, it's just not a subject matter worth exploring in film ...  And by all means, Josh, do not see Lynne Ramsey's acclaimed 'Ratcatcher' (1999) because you will "learn" nothing about the Glasgow general strike of 1973, and that is all that the film is supposed to be about.  (Insert emoticon for ironic wink here.) *SPOILERS END*
If only you were ironically winking... anything to soften the condescension would be great.

No condescension intended - just irony.  I saw 'Ratcatcher' last weekend based on my own experience with 'Kevin', and I really couldn't fully appreciate what it was trying to do on an emotional level - i.e., some of the same criticisms you had of 'Kevin' that I didn't think were on point with that film might be more on point with 'Ratcatcher'.  That is, if you didn't like 'Kevin' for the reasons you stated, then you are really not going to like 'Ratcatcher.'
OK, wow... not how I read that at all... seemed you were suggesting not to bother with Ratcatcher because he wouldn't get that movie either.

Well, there is a little bit of that in the sense that - the general strike is the plot setting for 'Ratcatcher', but you're going to get even less information about that plot setting than you get with the plot setting of 'Kevin', although I don't think that's the point of the filmmaker anyway.  But more to the point, if you didn't like 'Kevin' because you felt it wallowed in misery without much of any other point, then you are really not going to appreciate 'Ratcatcher' (i.e., that particular criticism would be even more apropos - albeit debatable - with 'Ratcatcher')  ... Please, anyone else who has seen 'Ratcatcher', jump in and tell me I'm wrong, because it's just my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 03:02:49 PM by sdb_1970 »
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pixote

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012, 02:59:49 PM »
Please, anyone else who has seen 'Ratcatcher', jump in and tell me I'm wrong, because it's just my opinion.

Done!

(Ratcatcher is amazing. We Need to Talk about Kevin is not.)

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FLYmeatwad

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 03:04:36 PM »
Please, anyone else who has seen 'Ratcatcher', jump in and tell me I'm wrong, because it's just my opinion.

Done!

(Ratcatcher is amazing. We Need to Talk about Kevin is not.)

pixote

I'll piggyback here: We Need To Talk About Kevin is very good, but Ratcatcher is one of my favorite films.

sdb_1970

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 03:07:19 PM »
Please, anyone else who has seen 'Ratcatcher', jump in and tell me I'm wrong, because it's just my opinion.

Done!

(Ratcatcher is amazing. We Need to Talk about Kevin is not.)

pixote

I'll piggyback here: We Need To Talk About Kevin is very good, but Ratcatcher is one of my favorite films.

The question is - given Josh and Adam's criticisms of 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' - would you recommend it to them?  I mean, seriously - beyond what happens in-between, think about how 'Ratcatcher' begins and ends.
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Dman

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 03:17:17 PM »
Alrighty now!  Me likes the new guy Josh Larsen.  I enjoy his input very much and I think him and Adam make a very good fit.  Also, thanks for playing my voicemail regarding the Top 5 Hotels segment even though I think I sounded kind of dorky.  In regards to said film, although I have to agree that the hotel definitely serves as a character, it’s still something about Lionel Barrymore and Joan Crawford’s performances that to this day stand out for me more than the legendary Greta Garbo’s performance, and make no mistake,  I do love me some Greta Garbo.

pixote

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 03:29:44 PM »
The question is - given Josh and Adam's criticisms of 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' - would you recommend it to them?  I mean, seriously - beyond what happens in-between, think about how 'Ratcatcher' begins and ends.

I would totally recommend it to them. Heck, I want them to feel obliged to watch it, even. There's even a scene with a sad kid on a bus with Nick Drake's "'Cello Song" playing in the background - but it's not a miserable-ism bus, I swear. (It's a beautiful film.)

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« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 03:31:47 PM by pixote »
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Adam

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 03:34:44 PM »
Please, anyone else who has seen 'Ratcatcher', jump in and tell me I'm wrong, because it's just my opinion.

Done!

(Ratcatcher is amazing. We Need to Talk about Kevin is not.)

pixote

I'll piggyback here: We Need To Talk About Kevin is very good, but Ratcatcher is one of my favorite films.

The question is - given Josh and Adam's criticisms of 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' - would you recommend it to them?  I mean, seriously - beyond what happens in-between, think about how 'Ratcatcher' begins and ends.
Whatever notions you may be extrapolating from our Kevin discussion... Neither of us are opposed to movies that: A) Are miserable and full of suffering or B) Don't offer lessons or provide firm answers. (How many such films have been praised on FS over the years?) So the key for me would probably be whether I feel the stylistic choices add/enhance the story or distract/detract from it. Personally I'm even more intrigued to see it after Kevin, just have way too many films to catch up with currently.
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sdb_1970

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 03:36:48 PM »
(I can't believe you felt compelled to write that bullying line... as if he thought that... makes me want to pull my hair out.)

Carry on!

Well, Adam, I don't think the tone of my comment was any more condescending than Josh suggesting in the bonus content that preview viewers didn't "get" 'Kevin' without the Q&A with the director afterward.  I (as well as other viewers at that particular event, I suspect) "got" that 'Kevin' didn't have the same agenda as 'Elephant' (nor does it need to) the second I walked out of the theater.  In fact, I've read three reviews of 'Kevin' that don't even mention 'Elephant' ... In any event, if you're going to actively continue the discussion on the bonus content by pouring more fuel on the fire (e.g., I believe the term Josh now uses to describe the term is "exploitative"), then shouldn't you expect more push-back from the people who looked at the film a different way and loved it?
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sdb_1970

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 03:44:23 PM »
Whatever notions you may be extrapolating from our Kevin discussion... Neither of us are opposed to movies that: A) Are miserable and full of suffering or B) Don't offer lessons or provide firm answers. (How many such films have been praised on FS over the years?) So the key for me would probably be whether I feel the stylistic choices add/enhance the story or distract/detract from it. Personally I'm even more intrigued to see it after Kevin, just have way too many films to catch up with currently.

So narrative content (i.e., "the story") doesn't matter at all, Adam?  Really?  As long as the form (i.e., "the stylistic choices") conforms to the story, it all works for you?  There are no movies that are just so thematically [insert emotional response that offends you] that no matter how beautifully done they are, you just cannot get into them?
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Adam

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Re: #385: Top 5 Hotel Movies / Innkeepers / Bresson Marathon #1
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 03:49:45 PM »
(I can't believe you felt compelled to write that bullying line... as if he thought that... makes me want to pull my hair out.)

Carry on!

Well, Adam, I don't think the tone of my comment was any more condescending than Josh suggesting in the bonus content that preview viewers didn't "get" 'Kevin' without the Q&A with the director afterward.  I (as well as other viewers at that particular event, I suspect) "got" that 'Kevin' didn't have the same agenda as 'Elephant' (nor does it need to) the second I walked out of the theater.  In fact, I've read three reviews of 'Kevin' that don't even mention 'Elephant' ... In any event, if you're going to actively continue the discussion on the bonus content by pouring more fuel on the fire (e.g., I believe the term Josh now uses to describe the term is "exploitative"), then shouldn't you expect more push-back from the people who looked at the film a different way and loved it?
Come on dude, you know that isn't what Josh suggested... One person made that comment about the director's remarks and he was specifically referencing that. Obviously he wasn't suggesting everyone needed that handholding.

I have no problem with push back. I have a problem when there's a tone of 'you're an idiot.' But you said I misread your comments so I thought there was no condescension at all? I think the key here is that you heard us as "adding fuel to the fire" when, you know, we were doing our best to just respond as reasonably as possible. There may have been fire, but there was no fuel.

I thought exploitative may have come up in the actual review, but either way I used it in the spoiler response, so nothing new there really.

The fact that other reviews you've read haven't mentioned Elephant only makes me appreciate that Josh mentioned it more.
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