Author Topic: Teach Me...  (Read 13165 times)

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2012, 01:00:02 PM »
oldkid! What a wonderful gift. Thank you. I'll be back home later today to reply, but wanted you to know that I read it and love it!

Totoro

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2012, 08:51:16 PM »
Totoro: How to be fearless.

On this forum, we have a certain level of anonymity. I have thus broken this level of anonymity by meeting 1SO in real life which is something I was both equally excited and scared of to do, but it happened, and quite frankly, I am happy that it did.

However, with the rest of you, people that I may or may never meet, this level of anonymity is armor, armor that protects me from getting too involved personally and thus losing a part of myself. As the internet expands and becomes bigger and bigger, a dilemma begins to arise. How do we recognize deep relationships? I believe that the relationships can only develop when there are no barriers protecting us from being vulnerable to each other.

Take for example this post. I am typing. I could write something, then delete it if I feel that it doesn't represent me. Through written word, I can edit the representation of myself. Hell, I could delete this post if I wanted to. I could edit it. I have full control over evidence of myself. I have full control over representation of myself. Thus, I am different person than I am in real life. Ask 1SO. Ask me! While there are characteristics, hobbies, and opinions that 1SO has that are similar to his expressed in this forum, I still wouldn't have expected him to be like the man I met in real life. And I bet 1SO feels the same way.

The thing is, Sandy, is that I am not the same person in real life that I am on this forum. Sure, you get my opinions, thoughts, and feelings, but all of these things are filtered through the process of writing. I use this fact, this level of anonymity, to achieve this fearlessness I believe you see as me, Totoro, on this forum. I don't believe you can reach any kind of deep relationship over the internet like you can in real life. I don't think you ever will be able to either. I am part projection, part real. This allows for more fearlessness (that so many here can find annoying) than usual.

Or is it another kind of fearlessness you want me to teach you about?


Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2012, 10:18:48 PM »
I was just working on a post to oldkid, but will save that so I can talk with you. First, I'll tell you what I meant when I said fearless. You are very able to go after the things that matter to you in a forthright fashion. I see it in your posts and I infer it in what I hear about your schooling. This doesn't come easy to me as I am uber aware of the people around me and I get caught up in how I fit into the mix and what the ramifications of my actions could be. Sometimes it immobilizes me. I don't think I will be able to be less aware, but I was interested in how your thought processes work to see if I could learn something to improve my mobility.

Anonymity has served me well here. I come and go as I please. I speak when I want and I also can delete when the wording isn't right. It does lend itself to a type of fearlessness that I haven't had the pleasure of elsewhere. I'm glad you brought that to my attention because it helps me realize that I can do it. But there is something else going on here that has been very much personal and deep. Because I am free to speak, I have said things I don't have the opportunity to say in the "real" world and because there are like minded people here who are interested in exploring the experiences of life, I get to listen and talk with people that I can't find in the "real" world. The people on this forum are in many ways more real to me than those that are "half awake" out here. As pathetic as this may sound, some of my dearest acquaintances are here. The internet has given me freedom to be vulnerable--that's a huge gift.

I'm wondering what part of you you are worried about losing. I hesitate to say it, but I probably see you more than you think I do. You can take off that armor here. I know that when you have voiced concerns and worries, filmspotters have been wonderfully supportive and interested in your welfare. I know they would do the same for me.

As for the fearlessness I see in you, there is something very focused and determined that helps you overcome obstacles. I'm interested in that.   Thanks for writing to me. :)

Totoro

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2012, 11:14:16 PM »
I was just working on a post to oldkid, but will save that so I can talk with you. First, I'll tell you what I meant when I said fearless. You are very able to go after the things that matter to you in a forthright fashion. I see it in your posts and I infer it in what I hear about your schooling. This doesn't come easy to me as I am uber aware of the people around me and I get caught up in how I fit into the mix and what the ramifications of my actions could be. Sometimes it immobilizes me. I don't think I will be able to be less aware, but I was interested in how your thought processes work to see if I could learn something to improve my mobility.

Anonymity has served me well here. I come and go as I please. I speak when I want and I also can delete when the wording isn't right. It does lend itself to a type of fearlessness that I haven't had the pleasure of elsewhere. I'm glad you brought that to my attention because it helps me realize that I can do it. But there is something else going on here that has been very much personal and deep. Because I am free to speak, I have said things I don't have the opportunity to say in the "real" world and because there are like minded people here who are interested in exploring the experiences of life, I get to listen and talk with people that I can't find in the "real" world. The people on this forum are in many ways more real to me than those that are "half awake" out here. As pathetic as this may sound, some of my dearest acquaintances are here. The internet has given me freedom to be vulnerable--that's a huge gift.

I'm wondering what part of you you are worried about losing. I hesitate to say it, but I probably see you more than you think I do. You can take off that armor here. I know that when you have voiced concerns and worries, filmspotters have been wonderfully supportive and interested in your welfare. I know they would do the same for me.

As for the fearlessness I see in you, there is something very focused and determined that helps you overcome obstacles. I'm interested in that.   Thanks for writing to me. :)

The certain kind of fearlessness I addressed is the certain kind of fearlessness I believed that you could find from my "forum personality". Now let me note - whether you're conscious about it or not, everyone has a "forum personality" that is part projection and part real-life self. It is true that I can reveal some things to strangers (sorry, but that's what the majority of you guys are) that I cannot reveal to friends and family, however that field of things is relatively small even though they can be very important.

The vulnerability I am speaking of is of a different kind. Vulnerability through communication of words of thoughts and feelings is very different than the unpredictable vulnerability of a person standing across from you, talking. This could be where my theatre experience comes in. It is the difference between a book and a film.* A book is a collection of words to give you a certain kind of description that you can imagine and project in your head as an image. A film is the opposite. It is a collection of images that you decipher from in order to get a description. A picture is worth a thousand words that bubble up from your reaction the picture.

What I am getting at is this - you have significant less power to control what people think of you when you are talking to them to their face. Your body language, for the most part, has a mind of its own. This is true vulnerability, seeing something that you yourself cannot see. It has happened very rarely to me on these boards. Perhaps it has happened more than I know! But I doubt it has happened to me as much as it has in my personal life. None of us will ever know you as well as your friends and family know you.

What am I afraid of losing? Being generally likable, I guess. But as time grows, perhaps I will be less afraid of it. However, this is a forum at the end of the day. I still find most of my happiness and comfort outside of this place. What I use filmspotting (mostly) for is to keep myself sharp with film analysis whether it is reading or writing.

---

Anyway.

Other kinds of fearlessness of myself? Hmmm. Well, I have about 10 years of acting experience. A lot of that taught me to just not care what others think about you because what matters is that you know yourself, first and foremost. It was a lot of crock in high school (my flamboyant theatrics mixed with my awkwardness around girls and my general movie-loving nerdiness in high school led to many girls to believe that I was gay), but as I have grown, I have found that the ideas imbued upon me do work generally. I have moved around to several different places in the country which could of taught me that home isn't a place, but an idea and that people can forget you as easily as you can forget them. Why care if my location is only temporary? You can extend that to life itself if you want to.

Did that help?

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2012, 11:22:58 PM »
What I wish filmspotters could teach me:
oldkid: How to see beyond the here and now.

1. Jesus futurism
(Those who consider Christian stuff to be mumbo jumbo, you can skip this paragraph.  Or you can read it if you want to be entertained.  Whatever.)
In the teaching of Jesus, the secret to living a right life here is to constantly be considering the future, especially one's future with God.  Jesus' ethical teaching is constantly referring to the future state-- not necessarily "heaven", but the final judgment of God and one's eternal state.  There are three basic principles he refers to:
    a. How we treat others (especially those under our authority) is how God will treat us
    "Judge not lest you be judged" "Forgive and you will be forgiven" "By whatever measure you measure, by that measure you will be measured."  "Enter into the kingdom prepared for you... for when I was a stranger you invited me in."
    b. Whatever we take for ourselves, we will be given the opposite
    "Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, those who humble themselves will be exalted."
    c.  Whatever kind of suffering/comfort we find ourselves in now, we will be living the opposite
     "In your life you received good things and Lazarus evil; even so, now he is comforted and you are in agony."  "Blessed are you who mourn, for you shall be comforted." "Woe to you who are rich for you have already received your comfort; woe to you who laugh now for you shall mourn and weep."
In the end, Jesus' recommendation for us to live beyond the present is to remember the future.  He told us clearly what the future holds (in general terms), if we can remember the future, it will actively change the present.  And this is the most important thing: the point of looking beyond the here and now is to change the here and now.  Because if we do not change the here and now, then our "beyond" will always look the same.


Having been taught well by your words, my first inclination is to refrain from commenting and merely reflect--which I've happily been doing today, but it leaves no avenue for all the thoughts that have bubbled up and it keeps you from seeing what I've learned (which you may be just fine with). You've already given me much of your time with your post so please don't feel obligated to answer my questions (some are rhetorical anyway.), but writing down these thoughts will help me sort them out.

I am at home with #1. The language is familiar and it speaks truth to me. I do have a circular thought process with it though. The more I try and live by these concepts, the less the future "reward" feels like the goal and in truth I'm not sure I've really been able to conceptualize it. Part of it is I'm impatient and I want to find it here and now--I'll even take glimpses of the divine--which I do and it is enough. I'm also happier living by His teachings, so it still is ultimately self serving. Is it even possible to lose your life? Because I keep getting it back ten fold. ("Cast your bread upon the waters...") Is the happiness I'm finding today, my sorrow for the future? It makes my head spin. I've been thinking about your congregation; people in the direst of circumstances. Do they find comfort in this concept? How do they have the patience? Do they teach you patience?


Quote
2. Deep focus
This is a paradoxical piece of advice to look beyond the here and now, and that is to look deeply into the here and now.  This doesn't mean take up particle physics (unless that is your deepest desire), but instead to be so "here" that other "heres" are relatively insignificant.  Another way of saying this is in a phrase in an old tract: Don't be caught up by the urgent, but instead focus on the important.  What are the one or two most important things in your life?  I know your kids are one.  So deeply focus on caring for and loving them that other things fade away.  Yes, you will miss opportunities.  There will be so many "good" things that seem important.  And for someone without a focus, they may very well be important.  But once you have the one or two things that are really important to you, let everything else go.  To everyone else, you will seem to be "in another world" or "unrealistic" or "obsessed."  And they'd be right.  My two focuses are the homeless and my immediate family.  Everything else is but shadow to me.  People tell me that I need a break or that I need to focus on my health more or whatever.  But I can't do that (unless I'm watching a movie).  I've got more important things to do than to measure my life by someone else's standard.

Your #2 could not be more timely. I've been struggling with a decision that has come to a head this week and your words have given me peace of mind about what I know is the right answer. Borrowing Frodo's words, "I feel thin, sort of stretched, like butter, scraped over too much bread." I can't do it all and I don't think I want to. I've chosen to postpone my Master's prep indefinitely and focus on those few priorities that matter most at this time (and yes, immersion back into film is one of them. :) ) School and a degree will  be there if I so choose and there is a class I still may take this fall--because it sounds so fascinating, but I am really more interested in the journey than the destination.  My mantra for a good six months has been, I'd choose a simpler life. I've changed that today to I choose a simpler life and it has made all the difference. Thank you for putting into words what my heart has been telling me. I'm curious where you learned it. I don't think it is a new idea for you, since you embody this so wholly.


Quote
3. Mysticism
There are two things that are essential ingredients to a happy, productive life: love and silence.  We must give and receive love, which can keep us very busy.  But we must balance out our love with silence.  In silence is prayer, it is rest, it is renewal, it is peace.  More often than not, we can find both God and ourselves in the silence.  For those full of fear or anxiety or guilt or doubt or pain, silence is frightening.  But it is still essential because without silence we cannot properly process and move past these issues.  In order for silence to do it's work, we must trust the Spirit in the silence.  Trust that the Spirit will heal us, and will empower us to keep living.  Trust that if we listen, the Spirit will speak.   And in an age of the internet and iPods and social networks, silence is hard to achieve.  There are so many things we "need" to do.  And our minds are so busy.  We need to stop and allow our minds to rest and allow the Spirit to do some work for us.  So, at times, we desperately need to shut our computers off, take our headphones out, get in the shower and turn on the water.  Or I like to occasionally go to a monastery and take a few days of silence (Trappist monasteries are good for that, and many have lodging for men and women).

Sermon's done. I think I'll go to the silence of sleep now.

I long for silence. I don't think those around me understand how deeply I wish for this. If my life isn't conducive to this concept, I don't know how you ever find time to be alone. I didn't fully understand why I felt it so keenly until I read this about me:

Devoted to those in their inner circle, INFPs guard the emotional well-being of others, consoling those in distress. Guided by their desire for harmony, INFPs prefer to be flexible unless their ethics are violated. Then, they become passionate advocates for their beliefs. They are often able to sway the opinions of others through tact, diplomacy, and an ability to see varying sides of an issue.

INFPs develop these insights through reflection, and they require substantial time alone to ponder and process new information.


This knowledge helped me so much because I stopped feeling guilty for wishing for it and am learning how to give myself permission to have time alone. Your words build my arsenal of resolve. I can point to them and say, "See! This is important!" The monastery is a very intriguing idea. Are you surrounded by other silent people? I think I might be more comfortable by myself in a cabin somewhere. :)

I can't thank you enough oldkid.

oldkid

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2012, 11:47:47 PM »
Well, I get a little nervous with you putting the responsibility/blame for life decisions on something I wrote past my bedtime.  However it sounds like you've already been thinking this way, so I'm glad to tip you in a direction you were already leaning toward.

I'm only going to respond to one thing:

I'm also happier living by His teachings, so it still is ultimately self serving. Is it even possible to lose your life? Because I keep getting it back ten fold. ("Cast your bread upon the waters...") Is the happiness I'm finding today, my sorrow for the future? It makes my head spin. I've been thinking about your congregation; people in the direst of circumstances. Do they find comfort in this concept? How do they have the patience? Do they teach you patience?

(Warning: Explicit Christian speech happening below.  Censor your reading as needed)
We need to remember that Jesus didn't say that our happiness today is our sorrow later.  Even when he said to accept persecutions, the word he used is "rejoice".  We are to obtain happiness now, if we can.  The real issue is comfort to the detriment of others.  I think he put it most clearly in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.  It wasn't just that the rich man was happy-- it was that he could have easily allowed Lazarus to participate in his happiness as well.  He said in Luke 14 that those who have a party shouldn't invite friends and neighbors, but the poor and others who couldn't pay them back.  The point is not that we shouldn't be happy.  The point is that whatever wealth we have--happiness, money, power, entertainment, our DVD collection-- should be shared with those who do not have it. 

If we do this kind of radical sharing, then our happiness both increases and decreases.  It increases, because it is shown that meeting someone else's need gives us a serotonin boost.  So, giving is addictive.  But our happiness also decreases because we will be helping people who really need help, who have many sorrows in their lives.  In helping them, we take on their sorrows as our own and increase stress and emotional struggle in ourselves.  This is compassion and empathy.  And this is the secret: to take on their sorrows is to not only lighten their load a little, but it gives us the sorrow that we need to have lifted.  The eternal kingdom is a second chance at life, because this life really sucks.  And the more this life sucks, the more right it is that we have a second chance.  So the more we share in the sorrows of others, the more we increase our future happiness (but we can also increase our own happiness, because we are feeding our giving addiction). 

Paradox?  Oh yeah.  I love it.

(Christian talk done now)
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2012, 12:50:16 AM »
The certain kind of fearlessness I addressed is the certain kind of fearlessness I believed that you could find from my "forum personality". Now let me note - whether you're conscious about it or not, everyone has a "forum personality" that is part projection and part real-life self. It is true that I can reveal some things to strangers (sorry, but that's what the majority of you guys are) that I cannot reveal to friends and family, however that field of things is relatively small even though they can be very important.

The vulnerability I am speaking of is of a different kind. Vulnerability through communication of words of thoughts and feelings is very different than the unpredictable vulnerability of a person standing across from you, talking. This could be where my theatre experience comes in. It is the difference between a book and a film.* A book is a collection of words to give you a certain kind of description that you can imagine and project in your head as an image. A film is the opposite. It is a collection of images that you decipher from in order to get a description. A picture is worth a thousand words that bubble up from your reaction the picture.

What I am getting at is this - you have significant less power to control what people think of you when you are talking to them to their face. Your body language, for the most part, has a mind of its own. This is true vulnerability, seeing something that you yourself cannot see. It has happened very rarely to me on these boards. Perhaps it has happened more than I know! But I doubt it has happened to me as much as it has in my personal life. None of us will ever know you as well as your friends and family know you.

What am I afraid of losing? Being generally likable, I guess. But as time grows, perhaps I will be less afraid of it. However, this is a forum at the end of the day. I still find most of my happiness and comfort outside of this place. What I use filmspotting (mostly) for is to keep myself sharp with film analysis whether it is reading or writing.

---

Anyway.

Other kinds of fearlessness of myself? Hmmm. Well, I have about 10 years of acting experience. A lot of that taught me to just not care what others think about you because what matters is that you know yourself, first and foremost. It was a lot of crock in high school (my flamboyant theatrics mixed with my awkwardness around girls and my general movie-loving nerdiness in high school led to many girls to believe that I was gay), but as I have grown, I have found that the ideas imbued upon me do work generally. I have moved around to several different places in the country which could of taught me that home isn't a place, but an idea and that people can forget you as easily as you can forget them. Why care if my location is only temporary? You can extend that to life itself if you want to.

Did that help?

Thanks for expounding on that. I like the analogy of book versus film and I'm glad that you really see and are seen by your family and friends. That is how it should be and you are fortunate. I think the key to your focus and determination is that you are clear about who you are-- "know yourself, first and foremost". This along with your life experiences has added dimension to your internet persona and maybe that is what I see coming through. So yes, it did help. I can work on clarity. :)

And Totoro, even thought we are only part real here, I hope you find that it's enough to make worthwhile connections.

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2012, 01:00:40 AM »
Well, I get a little nervous with you putting the responsibility/blame for life decisions on something I wrote past my bedtime.  However it sounds like you've already been thinking this way, so I'm glad to tip you in a direction you were already leaning toward.

I should have worded that better. I had made my decision, but it was nice to see a confirmation of it this morning.

Quote
(Warning: Explicit Christian speech happening below.  Censor your reading as needed)
We need to remember that Jesus didn't say that our happiness today is our sorrow later.  Even when he said to accept persecutions, the word he used is "rejoice".  We are to obtain happiness now, if we can.  The real issue is comfort to the detriment of others.  I think he put it most clearly in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.  It wasn't just that the rich man was happy-- it was that he could have easily allowed Lazarus to participate in his happiness as well.  He said in Luke 14 that those who have a party shouldn't invite friends and neighbors, but the poor and others who couldn't pay them back.  The point is not that we shouldn't be happy.  The point is that whatever wealth we have--happiness, money, power, entertainment, our DVD collection-- should be shared with those who do not have it. 

If we do this kind of radical sharing, then our happiness both increases and decreases.  It increases, because it is shown that meeting someone else's need gives us a serotonin boost.  So, giving is addictive.  But our happiness also decreases because we will be helping people who really need help, who have many sorrows in their lives.  In helping them, we take on their sorrows as our own and increase stress and emotional struggle in ourselves.  This is compassion and empathy.  And this is the secret: to take on their sorrows is to not only lighten their load a little, but it gives us the sorrow that we need to have lifted.  The eternal kingdom is a second chance at life, because this life really sucks.  And the more this life sucks, the more right it is that we have a second chance.  So the more we share in the sorrows of others, the more we increase our future happiness (but we can also increase our own happiness, because we are feeding our giving addiction). 

Paradox?  Oh yeah.  I love it.

(Christian talk done now)

 :D That's it! All is clear. I can get behind that 100%.

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2012, 08:48:49 PM »
I better start out with something simple so since I make a decent pico de gallo,
OK, so here's a thought...

My own personal culinary school!
Update.

Antares, I ended up being out of town today, but have started to gather ingredients and will get to it this coming week. I'm really looking forward to see if I can pull it off. :)

Sandy

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Re: Teach Me...
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2012, 07:32:12 PM »
OK, so here's a thought...

Antares! I finally found a free day. :) I could use some plating instructions and my picture is a little fuzzy, but I had a wonderful time making your recipe.



Everything tasted great and even my non-fish eaters gave it a shot. Thank you for writing it up with such great detail. It was like you were standing there helping me in the kitchen. :)

 

love