Author Topic: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake  (Read 11722 times)

saltine

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2013, 03:53:56 PM »
So, did Johnno signal the truck on prom night?  I know he denied it, but his confession of the "I have something bad to tell you" bit didn't really seem so "bad."  Robin thought there was more to it than what he admitted since she questioned him about the signal, but it seemed to me an unresolved thread in the story.
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Bondo

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2013, 05:45:13 PM »
I don't know, the direction it turns it seems hard to believe that he did. I don't really get the logic saying he did. When he made the ominous statement of doing something bad I thought he'd say he joined in ultimately, not that he simply didn't help her. It seems weird to end on that confession and then flip it to him actually orchestrating it.

oneaprilday

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2013, 07:02:33 PM »
I think what exactly he did/didn't do is deliberately vague; he clearly has some guilt about the incident, and it could be that he merely feels guilty about not trying harder to help, but there's a definite unease that there's more to it than that.

That thread of women continuing in relationships with men who have hurt them or do hurt them runs through the show, doesn't it? Even if Johnno didn't hurt her, actively, the indication is that he was/is capable of doing so, even if the relationship is/becomes healthy. Think of Robin's mother's relationship - it's not dwelt upon, but her boyfriend (or was he her husband?) had punched a hole in the wall.  He loves Robin's mother - and Robin - but he's still capable of that violence, and I couldn't help thinking about it, even when Robin and he were comforting one another in the wake of Robin's mother's death and when my sympathies were fully with him.

Campion's interested in those complex, muddly relationships, I think, and there's a similar complexity in In the Cut, where Ruffalo's character is blatantly and horribly misogynist on the one hand but also exactly what Ryan's character wants on the other; he's both misogynist and tender.

I love that position Campion's puts us in as viewers - a similar position to the women themselves, I think, where desires are complex and not completely logical; we see the threat, but we also want any two in a given relationship to be together, Robin and Johnno, Ruffalo and Ryan, Robin's mother and her partner.

I've been thinking about GJ's camp in regards to this, too; the women make no real effort to keep men out. They could, if they wanted, to, post guards and warn men off with guns or something, but they don't. They don't seem particularly wary, in spite of what they have all been through in relationships with men in their past. So the camp is a such a weird mix of women being women and living communally and yet not really being exclusive; men can come if they like. The camp is not "safe" from men, and it isn't necessarily meant to be - because the women have no interest in shoving men out of their lives - men are a part of who the women are and what they desire, however complicated and perhaps dangerous that relationship might be.

Bondo

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2013, 08:55:47 PM »
The other thing with Johnno is that the first time things rekindle with Robin is when he refuses to stand aside when he goes into the women's bathroom and largely forces himself on her. Definitely toying with a line of abuse and pleasure in the relationship.

This is actually something I'm a bit wary of because it is kind of a rapey scene yet by the end Robin is seemingly consenting and enjoying. It sends mixed messages about rape culture if on the one hand the message is no means no and on the other hand we're being told that women really want a sexually aggressive man who will know when to see through the no. It does get too close to victim blaming to say women need to be more clear on this, do more of the initiation or else they bring the sexual violence on them, but it is a complication in how women behave in relationships that would need to change for feminism to make progress on rape culture considering much of rape exists within these murkier lines involving dates.

I wish I felt Campion said more about this rather than just raising the question through provocation.

oneaprilday

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2013, 09:12:03 PM »
Yes, I know what you mean. Campion is very, hmm, purely observational in some ways, and it's discomfiting when we want a clearer statement against certain actions in a scene.  I had a pretty negative reaction to Holy Smoke because of this sort of thing- the actions against Winslet's character and her kind of complicity in them made me extremely uncomfortable.  But I'm curious now to go back to that film after having seen other work from Campion, especially something like In the Cut.  I think, ultimately, given a work as a whole and given her whole body of work, it's impossible to see Campion as promoting or approving violent aggression, very far from it.  She is recording, rather, how things often are, and it's through the raw exposure of those things and relationships, I think, that the critique comes, and we can make our own judgments.

saltine

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2013, 01:33:03 AM »
I'm a bit conflicted about Robin too.  She was certainly emotionally battered, maybe most of her life.  She seemed strong but was very vulnerable.  She made some lousy decisions, but most of those were based on not having full knowledge of the situation.  She acted on instinct more than understanding.  Sometimes that served her; other times it didn't.

I liked that GJ's place was a refuge for women, but she didn't work to control them, just tolerated them until she didn't any longer.  She was the most enigmatic of the characters but she wasn't supposed to be fully understood or bring any back story I could discern to the story.  While I didn't mind Holly Hunter in the role, I don't think she served it very well.  Another actress would have made very different decisions in that role, I think.  She was totally not charismatic.  If anything, she was a bit of a bitch herself.  I couldn't see one reason why the women were drawn to her.

I didn't mind some threads left dangling, but I wonder how Robin coped in the end.  She had some life tools but I fear not enough to raise a baby, a child, and cope with a man all who were at once thrust upon her. 
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jensuch

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2013, 06:27:56 AM »
I'm still working my way through this series--just started episode 5 (I think?). 

I'm a big Campion fan and was excited to see what she would do with this genre.  I've heard some comparison to Twin Peaks, which I don't think is fair unless you're only focusing on the "crime against a young girl committed in proximity to nature" aspect.  In fact, any work that is lacking gobs of well done quirk should  not be compared to TP. 

But overall I really like this.  The tone is pitch perfect and I like that she focuses on women's issues without smacking you over the head.  And to Bondo--yes.  I quite like that she puts questions out there without answers.  After all, it's impossible to say that power and control aren't a part of sex for most people, but introducing that fact in a show that is also dealing with rape and abuse...  Well, I like that a director and writer would just sort of say, "Hey, have you thought about this?"

And it's great to see Elizabeth Moss flexing her acting chops in a different context.  But every time they show her in flashback, I'm reminded of Moss' role as President Barlett's daughter, Zoe, in The West Wing.  Distracts me a little. 

jbissell

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2013, 04:57:30 PM »
Plowed through all of this over the weekend and loved it, even though it was so crushing in a lot of spots.

Did the ending with the wall of pictures remind anyone else of the end of season 2 of Veronica Mars? That was the only part that felt too abruptly/neatly wrapped up.

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2014, 08:50:15 AM »
I was thinking about writing up a full post for this miniseries, but there's just not enough time in the day given all the other stuff I need to work on, so I'll just offer some quick thoughts:

-I really love the quiet, understated mood of this show. Lot of unsettling moments that aren't as aggressive or bombastic as they could be.

-There are some astounding performances. As much as I don't care for Mad Men, Elisabeth Moss was great in that show and she's even better here. Also, Peter Mullan is a force of nature. Every scene he is in is astounding.

-I like the front-end of this show much more than the back half. The more it becomes about Robin's character and her past, the more the show faltered. Trying to give her a personal stake in the case felt kinda unnecessary, or it would have rather been something I wish the show would let us infer from several moments earlier in the show. I also think it takes away from other characters and threads I would have liked to see more of, especially Al and GJ.

-Obviously, there's a lot of interesting women's perspective stuff going on in this show. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me has delved into that stuff.

So yes, it's quite good, but the last couple of episodes in particular were a bit of a letdown. Still glad I checked it out and it reminds me I need to watch more Jane Campion.

1SO

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Re: Sundance Channel: Top of the Lake
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2014, 10:04:11 AM »
oneaprilday and I discuss Top of the Lake starting here.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 11:52:51 AM by 1SO »