Author Topic: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...  (Read 4265 times)

smirnoff

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 05:55:11 PM »
Hmm, I did watch this again after all, but remain disappointed.

The transition between the end of the opening sequence and the beginning of the opening credits is such a big moment in these Bond films. It's supposed to be cool. An exclamation point. The cherry on top. Here it's just kind of like, "oh, there's a man in the trunk". Bond says something unremarkable, freeze frame, cut to credits...

I dunno... it's just not a good moment! It's too bad too bacause the music kicks in right after, and that opening riff is pretty great. But the transition! I wanted it to be like "boom" and I'd be like "awesome". You should be smiling going into the opening credits. I wasn't smiling.

IIRC the Casino Royale transition is much cooler. It's got that great line, "Yes.... considerably." It's a much better moment and leaves me feeling like "whoa!"



I agree completely about the editing. I mean it's noticable! When do you ever even notice editing?

Another problem I had with the film is how little they explain the villain's master plan. He acquires this 80 sq mile region somewhere in the Bolivia, which appears to be nothing but a desert. But we find out that somehow this one spot is the water reservoir for the entire country or multiple countries. Later we learn that this is only the case because the villain somehow diverted some rivers to make it so. But the film is SO vague about it. It's this monstrous geological feat but we don't even know how he did it. And there's no moment where the villain has Bond captured, so he can explain it to him (and us).

The film spends so much time chasing this mystery organization which doesn't really amount to anything, but no time at all demonstrating the villainy of the actual villain.

At the end of the film Bond kills the villain and the general, and that's good, but the issue of the water is never resolved! It's still trapped in the villain's secret underground reservoir. Just because the villain is dead doesn't mean the waterflow is restored to that thirsty village we kept seeing. It just means he won't be around to profit from his plan. As far as I could tell all that happens is bond blows up an inconsequential hotel in the desert.

It's like if the plot had been a moon laser to blow up earth, and at the end of the film the villain died but they just left the moon lazer where it was. It doesn't make sense.

Aside from how vague the main plot is I actually like the idea of the more realistic "corner the market on water" scheme. It's devious and not that far from something that probably has already or will eventually happen.



Is it just me or is there NO sexual chemistry between bond and this character?

Besides that I found her very uninteresting. No sass... no anything really.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 07:02:12 PM by smirnoff »

1SO

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 07:04:00 PM »
I agree completely about the editing. I mean it's noticable! When do you ever even notice editing?

Another great line from the Boards this year. To answer your question, I just watched The Great Gatsby and can say "any time Baz Luhrmann is the director." Also, the editing in this film can be called 'traumatizing' because when I watched World War Z by the same director, there's some similar editing going on during a couple of the zombie attacks and I immediately flashed back, bringing down my opinion of WWZ.

Melvil

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 08:29:25 PM »
I don't believe noticeable editing is inherently bad, but when it crosses over from noticeable to frustrating as it does here you've definitely got a problem.

Sandy

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2013, 09:28:45 PM »
Hmm, I did watch this again after all, but remain disappointed.

The transition between the end of the opening sequence and the beginning of the opening credits is such a big moment in these Bond films. It's supposed to be cool. An exclamation point. The cherry on top. Here it's just kind of like, "oh, there's a man in the trunk". Bond says something unremarkable, freeze frame, cut to credits...

I think my exact words were, "What was that? That's it?" :D

Quote
I dunno... it's just not a good moment! It's too bad too bacause the music kicks in right after, and that opening riff is pretty great. But the transition! I wanted it to be like "boom" and I'd be like "awesome". You should be smiling going into the opening credits. I wasn't smiling.

IIRC the Casino Royale transition is much cooler. It's got that great line, "Yes.... considerably." It's a much better moment and leaves me feeling like "whoa!"

These sound effects paragraphs have me smiling.

Quote
I agree completely about the editing. I mean it's noticable! When do you ever even notice editing?

In agreement with 1SO on this quote!

Quote
Another problem I had with the film is how little they explain the villain's master plan. He acquires this 80 sq mile region somewhere in the Bolivia, which appears to be nothing but a desert. But we find out that somehow this one spot is the water reservoir for the entire country or multiple countries. Later we learn that this is only the case because the villain somehow diverted some rivers to make it so. But the film is SO vague about it. It's this monstrous geological feat but we don't even know how he did it. And there's no moment where the villain has Bond captured, so he can explain it to him (and us).

Ha! Thanks for saying this. I thought I had slept through some key info and couldn't find it going back through. whew.

Quote
The film spends so much time chasing this mystery organization which doesn't really amount to anything, but no time at all demonstrating the villainy of the actual villain.

At the end of the film Bond kills the villain and the general, and that's good, but the issue of the water is never resolved! It's still trapped in the villain's secret underground reservoir. Just because the villain is dead doesn't mean the waterflow is restored to that thirsty village we kept seeing. It just means he won't be around to profit from his plan. As far as I could tell all that happens is bond blows up an inconsequential hotel in the desert.

It's like if the plot had been a moon laser to blow up earth, and at the end of the film the villain died but they just left the moon laser where it was. It doesn't make sense.

:D

You weren't supposed to notice that, with all the quick cuts and all.



Quote
Is it just me or is there NO sexual chemistry between bond and this character?

Besides that I found her very uninteresting. No sass... no anything really.





hmmm... wha? did you say something?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 09:30:27 PM by Sandy »
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

Sandy

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 09:29:52 PM »
I don't believe noticeable editing is inherently bad, but when it crosses over from noticeable to frustrating as it does here you've definitely got a problem.

In complete agreement Melvil.
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

Corndog

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 10:18:35 PM »
 :'(

I get the beef with the editing, I really do. And no, there isn't great chemistry. I think Bond's chemistry is much better with Fields. She is the Bond girl here imo. Camille is more of a mysterious accomplice with her own motivations. I always saw her as less of a love interest, which is a rare thing, but does happen in the Bond realm. I might compare her more to a Wai Lin from Tomorrow Never Dies: a fellow agent and more an equal than one of Bond's women he lusts after. Only on a few occasions have I felt the series produced a Bond girl with both chemistry and the wit and toughness to be called Bond's equal (Tracy from OHMSS and Pam from Licence to Kill).

As for the resolution to the threat, I always thought Greene bought the land to hold the water hostage essentially, and drive up the price. Once he's dead, the water is still there, but no longer being held, so the people of Bolivia can get it as needed with no greedy businessman withholding it.

I don't love the movie, but I always feel it gets ragged on more than it deserves. It feels lesser because I always felt it an extension of the Casino Royale storyline in a way.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:20:46 PM by Corndog »
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Junior

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 10:27:14 PM »
At least there's the great opera scene. Everything else has left my memory. Unlike Skyfall.
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Melvil

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 12:20:12 AM »
At least there's the great opera scene. Everything else has left my memory. Unlike Skyfall.

The opera scene is the main thing that QoS has left with me, I remember it being pretty excellent.

smirnoff

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 10:08:49 PM »
I think Bond's chemistry is much better with Fields.

Totes!

Quote
As for the resolution to the threat, I always thought Greene bought the land to hold the water hostage essentially, and drive up the price. Once he's dead, the water is still there, but no longer being held, so the people of Bolivia can get it as needed with no greedy businessman withholding it.

I'm sure that's probably what they were going for. I just wish it were clearer.

Something like:


Followed by bursting dams and stuff.

Quote
I don't love the movie, but I always feel it gets ragged on more than it deserves. It feels lesser because I always felt it an extension of the Casino Royale storyline in a way.

Yeah, it's not the worst. I wouldn't omit it if I were doing a future marathon or anything. :)

Sandy

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Re: A Shaken, Not Stirred Message Will Self Destruct...
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2014, 12:02:47 AM »
Skyfall




(No one told me this was Home Alone V.)


Oh, the opener! Now this is more like it. I can follow along through the different locations and I know where I am spatially and the movie wants me to. How refreshing. I get a kick out of the rooftop motorcycles and the backhoe bucket bridge and I continued to drink in the tunnel limbo, the waterfall fall and Adele's singing acid trip. This is all going swimmingly. The themes explored are keeping my interest mentally and emotionally: the lesser-of-two-evil decision making (McNamara #9 In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.), relevancy in relation to age, spy school as surrogate, and the differing level of loyalties having been sent down the river, or on a slow boat to China.

All this works for me and on top of that, there are the visuals. I never get bored looking, just looking; from neon blue glass, to golden Macau accented in red, to the grey stone of Churchill's bunker. It's gorgeous...

Screeching halt.

I try to ignore some plot points and dialogue, because of all the greatness I just applauded up above, but they just cannot be. They stick out like sore thumbs. Some of the lines are forced and the actors can tell what they were saying is ouch worthy. Something about a moving target is harder to hit, so he better keep moving (I guess it is a Bond trademark though, so I need to let that go.).


I laughed out loud at this scene.



Why is he standing? Are his trousers too tight? Does he not want to get them dirty on the bench? I come to the conclusion, that he's demonstrating his sea leg skills. He's always demonstrating his sea legs.






... so I'll let that go too.


Something harder to let go. Silva has years in the planning to create a tunnel visual so Q can help Bond track him? The map doesn't help Silva one iota. And, let me track this. Silva knew years in advance that M was going to be at a public inquiry that day and not in the bunker? (A good reason for M's impending retirement is that she's willing to put all of those people in danger, because of her pride.) He has his change of clothes ready, his remote controlled bomb set at the Winchester Station just as the train is scheduled to come through (that's precision, because I've waited long stretches for trains down there), and has his henchmen dressed and ready outside the courtroom. Impressive forethought.


There is one thing I can't let go though and have to reprimand Kincade about it. You help M escape through the underground tunnel and you know the moor like the back of your hand. Why in the Sam Hill are you using a flashlight?! It's not even dark. Haven't you noticed the big bonfire behind you? Inexcusable.






The Kevin McCallister "This is my house, I have to defend it." Award goes to:



M, for her rewiring technique.



« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 06:32:42 PM by Sandy »
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