Author Topic: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven  (Read 1910 times)

saltine

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#525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« on: February 13, 2015, 01:06:26 AM »
With the divisive "American Sniper" a surprise awards season success, Filmspotting takes a trip back a couple of decades - back to the mythic Old West - for a Sacred Cow review of Clint Eastwood’s Best Picture-winning UNFORGIVEN. Plus, the Chicago Tribune’s Michael Phillips drops by to help us handicap the 2015 OSCARS.
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jmbossy

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 02:30:53 AM »
I watched Unforgiven in preparation for your guys' discussion and I thought I'd share my thoughts on the ending (as it relates to the film's drastic tonal change).

If Unforgiven was a conflict of redemption v. regression inside Munny, we probably wouldn't have even seen a lot of the Lil' Bill story. It wouldn't have been necessary, so the inclusion of Bill and his arc is ulterior. Bill begins to write a heroic narrative for himself through the Beauchamp character; he even makes sure Beauchamp is paying attention, "taking note" of anything "heroic" he does. I think Adam also suggested the house Bill was building may have been a representation of his humble/artisinal narrative. In his story, Munny is a villain. The first time Bill meets Munny, he vilifies him as "trash" without much insight, and brutalizes him in the same way he did English Bob. The end to Bill's narrative, of a good man only trying to make peace, is a fight with a real monster, the monster William inadvertantly became.

The ending was appropriate because it was exactly how these two men imagined their stories would end (except, I'd think, Bill assumed he would be victorious and William assumed he would die). I'm sure there are also valid theories of the ending being a social regression, but that seems more like an Andersonian method, and i don't think Eastwood was really trying to make much social commentary (at least, i don't think there is enough solid evidence to suggest he was). I think that Eastwood was trying to evoke the way moments of legend are idealized, or as they would be by the participants in the story. The first 4/5ths of the movie are about characters separating themselves from these kinds of legends, but the ending was the indulgence therein, where these characters ultimately feel they belong.

johnnywriter

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 08:57:27 AM »
I am a new listener to the show. I live in South Carolina and travel 45 minutes one way to work, and your podcast makes my commute some of the best moments of my day.

The last podcast I listened to, you guys talked about Clint Eastwood's movies. I think it was Michael Phillips or Josh who commented on Eastwood's Unforgiven not being a redemptive story, and I agree. That is why I think it would be great for you guys to talk about Eastwood's film, Gran Torino, which is my favorite of Eastwood's. Here, I think, we get a film about a character who begins to change from the hard-boiled, mean spirited, violent man of Eastwood's younger movies to a redemptive hero. Watching Gran Torino in conjunction with Unforgiven makes for an interesting discussion about violence and redemption. Without spoilers, the ending of Gran Tornino delivers delightfully. It ends in a way that is unexpected from all of Clint's other films about violence. We think we are getting ready to see another ending like that of Unforgiven, but instead we getting something more complex and redemptive.

Anyway, thanks for the podcasts! Please keep it up!

saltine

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 03:49:13 PM »
Welcome to the forum and to Filmspotting, johnnywriter!

Gran Torino was reviewed on FS#239.
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littleman00

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 06:42:05 PM »
Re-watched "Unforgiven" for the first time in about ten years. I think it's made a greater impression on me now than it did back then, and I think it had something to do with the final gunfight. Munny shoots up the bar from basically one position. He barely moves for the first few gunshots, despite his opponents being mere feet away from him. I remember my initial reaction to that being one of disbelief; how can all those guys miss? In this viewing, I instantly recall that scene with Little Bill and the writer, when he describes how the best gunfighters are calm and collected. The ones who start shooting wildly in a fight are the ones more likely to miss.

When Munny fires on those bar patrons, he does it coolly and collectively. Munny is the badass gunfighter he desperately doesn't want to be. No matter how hard he tries to forget or make amends for his past, it's useless. It's too late. That's who is he at his core.

Has anyone seen the Japanese remake, "Yurusarezaru Mono"? I'd love to hear another discussion regarding that film.

johnnywriter

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 11:55:26 AM »
Welcome to the forum and to Filmspotting, johnnywriter!

Gran Torino was reviewed on FS#239.

Great! Thank you; I am glad to be here. I will be listening to that episode soon.

AaronElWhite

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 04:21:25 PM »
I, too, re-watched it for the first time as an adult and it really affected me differently than my first viewing. It is certainly a superb film. I had forgotten just how deconstructed it was, how backward it's story was from the traditional Western motivations. One thing that really stuck out to (and bothered) me the entire film was that Munny just up and leaves his kids. They weren't teenagers and the brief time we see them it as ineffective farmhands. I know that Munny mentions someone checking in on them once a week or so, but this just seemed so terribly neglectful that I spent the entire film wondering what was going on with those kids. It also gave Munny one trait that I felt was irredeemable. Maybe it's just me being a father, but it stuck with me that he would leave them so alone. And regardless of his reasons, that's not okay in my world.

Adam

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 10:34:23 PM »
I know that Munny mentions someone checking in on them once a week or so, but this just seemed so terribly neglectful that I spent the entire film wondering what was going on with those kids. It also gave Munny one trait that I felt was irredeemable. Maybe it's just me being a father, but it stuck with me that he would leave them so alone. And regardless of his reasons, that's not okay in my world.
I worried too but have to think Eastwood didn't intend us to judge him for it... different time, different 'rules'.
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etopp

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Re: #525: 2015 Oscar Picks / Sacred Cow: Unforgiven
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 07:16:44 PM »
IMHO "High Plains Drifter" is superior to the overhyped and largely forgettable "Unforgiven"