Author Topic: Ex Machina  (Read 20193 times)

verbALs

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2016, 11:41:32 PM »
I wish I could see that drawing, I couldn't find one in the film's images. The drawing may be beyond human understanding, which seems a reasonable result. What I did find was an image of Isaacs standing in front of a Jackson Pollack. A painting beyond human understanding. No pattern recognition anyway.

The ability to mimic human behaviour might be the least of what you might expect from an AI given all the big data fed it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 11:43:25 PM by verbALs »
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

smirnoff

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2016, 11:48:17 PM »
I wish I could see that drawing, I couldn't find one in the film's images. The drawing may be beyond human understanding, which seems a reasonable result.

It's not that. The drawing is beyond Ava's understanding. She says so in the film. "I do drawings every day... but I never know what they're of".



Quote
What I did find was an image of Isaacs standing in front of a Jackson Pollack. A painting beyond human understanding. No pattern recognition anyway.

I thought Nathan's description of Pollacks work and using it as a analogy for the events of the movie at that point showed tremendous human understanding. Of the situation and the art itself. I found it the single most useful thing I've ever heard anyone say about Pollack.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 11:52:03 PM by smirnoff »

verbALs

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2016, 11:57:21 PM »
So what did he say?

Her drawing looks fractal.

I must admit that even starting to discuss this reminds me that Garlands understanding of what he is presenting in this film is in question. He has every right to use the subject to make a good drama but he clearly isn't trying to extend the theme of AI and what it will mean. He's trying to make a good flick not a scientific treatise. Drawing conclusions from what he shows Ava drawing makes me think this ain't a documentary. It means nothing.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 12:06:01 AM by verbALs »
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

smirnoff

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2016, 12:22:16 AM »
That's a strange thing to say. Of course it means nothing and it's all a made up movie. When has that ever mattered? If you want to talk about AI sans Ex Machina because you didn't like it, just say so. But the discussion has to be sans Under The Skin too. :)

verbALs

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2016, 12:30:33 AM »
That's fair enough. I did say I was only reminded of that after I wrote the comment. Sorry you find that strange.

So what did he say about Pollock?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 12:34:30 AM by verbALs »
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smirnoff

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2016, 12:41:10 AM »
Well I won't try to transcribe the entire scene (or the scene before which is what brings them to look at the painting), but he makes a point about the art being someplace in between deliberate and random. I don't know if you can split a hair that fine, I'm inclined to say you can't, but if you can I guess that's what Pollack was doing. Anyways, I thought it was a thoughtful approach to their discussion.

verbALs

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2016, 12:44:54 AM »
Yeah my understanding is that Pollock works beyond pattern recognition which might elucidate the picture you posted of the robot drawing. There might be both an overall distinct pattern but the fractal nature means that the internal structure is "snowflake" unique at all points. Thanks for posting the picture. 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 12:52:45 AM by verbALs »
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

jdc

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2016, 02:43:31 AM »
Well I won't try to transcribe the entire scene (or the scene before which is what brings them to look at the painting), but he makes a point about the art being someplace in between deliberate and random. I don't know if you can split a hair that fine, I'm inclined to say you can't, but if you can I guess that's what Pollack was doing. Anyways, I thought it was a thoughtful approach to their discussion.

Nathan: You know this guy, right? - Jackson Pollock. - Jackson Pollock. That's right. The drip painter. Okay. He let his mind go blank, and his hand go where it wanted. Not deliberate, not random. Some place in between. They called it automatic art. Let's make this like Star Trek, okay? Engage intellect.
Caleb: Excuse me?
Nathan: I'm Kirk. Your head's the warp drive. Engage intellect. What if Pollock had reversed the challenge. What if instead of making art without thinking, he said, "You know what? I can't paint anything, unless I know exactly why I'm doing it." What would have happened?
Caleb: He never would have made a single mark.
Nathan: Yes! You see, there's my guy, there's my buddy, who thinks before he opens his mouth. He never would have made a single mark.
Nathan: The challenge is not to act automatically. It's to find an action that is not automatic. From painting, to breathing, to talking, to CINECAST!ing. To falling in love...
Nathan: And for the record, Ava's not pretending to like you. And her flirting isn't an algorithm to fake you out. You're the first man she's met that isn't me. And I'm like her dad, right? Can you blame her for getting a crush on you?
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Wiz

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2016, 05:24:13 AM »
Ex Machina is an awesome film, will blow your mind - watch it if you haven't!!!!

Melvil

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Re: Ex Machina
« Reply #99 on: June 30, 2016, 10:25:14 AM »
I must admit that even starting to discuss this reminds me that Garlands understanding of what he is presenting in this film is in question. He has every right to use the subject to make a good drama but he clearly isn't trying to extend the theme of AI and what it will mean. He's trying to make a good flick not a scientific treatise. Drawing conclusions from what he shows Ava drawing makes me think this ain't a documentary. It means nothing.

I think his intent is to raise moral questions about the messy blurry territory of being at the center of / creating an emerging AI. It's the part of the process that is almost always skipped over in stories, which is why I find it so fascinating here. Ultimately yes, his story is a drama and not a scientific white paper, but it's the human role in the process that is most important, so not nailing the exact realism of the AI itself doesn't break the film. It got me thinking anyways.

 

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