Author Topic: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons  (Read 75840 times)

1SO

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #140 on: April 21, 2016, 02:09:05 PM »
Seems to me there's a yardstick on how to view American patriotism. On one extreme end, there's the Team America approach, only without the irony. On the other is an America full of shame and unhealing conflict for some of the decisions made. (You can start with slavery, but you certainly don't end with it.) From what I read, the film doesn't go all the way to the first extreme, which is an achievement considering the songs and subject. However, you wish it went a little more towards the other side, at least tackling some greater moral conflict.

People like to point out the film started filming on the day Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, so making the film star spangled awesome is a reflection of the needs of the time. I have a different take, which doesn't require backstory. The film gets away with it's proud patriotism because it's just as much a tribute to the American theater, in all its forms. Both low and high art. George M. Cohan was a Captain America of the stage. Not the best or the brightest, but he had a big heart and was always trying to provide what he thought the people needed.

Teproc

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #141 on: April 21, 2016, 05:08:08 PM »
Seems to me there's a yardstick on how to view American patriotism. On one extreme end, there's the Team America approach, only without the irony. On the other is an America full of shame and unhealing conflict for some of the decisions made. (You can start with slavery, but you certainly don't end with it.) From what I read, the film doesn't go all the way to the first extreme, which is an achievement considering the songs and subject. However, you wish it went a little more towards the other side, at least tackling some greater moral conflict.

People like to point out the film started filming on the day Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, so making the film star spangled awesome is a reflection of the needs of the time. I have a different take, which doesn't require backstory. The film gets away with it's proud patriotism because it's just as much a tribute to the American theater, in all its forms. Both low and high art. George M. Cohan was a Captain America of the stage. Not the best or the brightest, but he had a big heart and was always trying to provide what he thought the people needed.

I don't really mind that it ends up being a clearly patriotic film : as you point out there's basically no better time in history for that as far as America is concerned. But that scene where Cohan comes home to confess a pretty heavy betrayal to Mary, and she shrugs it off... it's such a wasted opportunity, isn't it ? There's clearly an awareness in the film that this is not the kind of artist that gets celebrated, and it deals with that to an extent, but it stops short about halfway through to segue into hagiography, that's what bothers me, much more than overly patriotic scenes : the last scene, in which Cohan walks among soldiers singing "Over There" works very well for example.

You are right about it being a love letter to theater, especially to itinerant theater, with its portrayal of the Four Cohans. They're lovable but not perfect. Really I feel like the first half of the film has a nuance in its approach to the characters, a nuance it loses in the second half.
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1SO

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #142 on: April 21, 2016, 05:46:50 PM »
I feel like the first half of the film has a nuance in its approach to the characters, a nuance it loses in the second half.
I can see that. It doesn't bother me, but I see it.

Teproc

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #143 on: April 23, 2016, 02:36:17 PM »
Swing Time (George Stevens, 1936)



Adam & Sam's take

So... can a film with (mostly) terrible acting, an incredibly contrived plot, unlikable characters, (mostly) painful attempts at comedy and a typical 1930's romance ("We hate each other ! Oh, wait, now we love each other !") be redeemed by one (and a half) great song-and-dance number ?

No. No it cannot.

Let's get to those exceptions then. Ginger Rogers is great here, and unlike Astaire, she acts as well as she dances. That is to say, she does what she can with what she is given, which is limited to hating or loving him. The first time they dance together, the film suddenly seems to be alive... which, after half an hour of painful, painful comedy, is a relief. Unfortunately, most of the musical numbers here don't manage to recreate that magic before the very last one. For a film called "Swing time", it sure doesn't swing much... 1936 means Benny Goodman and Duke Ellington were around back then right ? The music frankly feels outdated by those standards. Astaire and Rogers... I expected their chemistry to be something else entirely, but Astaire's complete inability to do anything else than smirk (well, that and dancing obviously) makes all of Rogers' efforts utterly wasted. "Never Gonna Dance" is really, really good... but that's just not enough.

I suppose the comedy is where one could potentially enjoy this film, but I don't see what's so funny about putting cuffs on pants that it has to take up what seems like 10 minutes of running time. Oh, and did I mention the blackface ? Not only is there a musical number performed by Astaire in blackface, it's also incredibly long and... just not very good ? Maybe I was just completely out of the film at that point, but then again "Never Gonna Dance" did manage to get me back in for a few minutes at the end.

3/10

Has Ginger Rogers done anything without Astaire ? That sounds like it'd be more watchable.
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Junior

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #144 on: April 23, 2016, 02:42:19 PM »
Oof, I'm sorry it didn't work for you. To answer some of your questions, yes, I did find most of the humor to be pretty funny. And I thought that the chemistry was there, certainly in the dancers but even beyond that into their interactions the rest of the time. I'll admit to being pretty bored by the rote plot, but the singing and dancing cures many wounds. Even the blackface one, which is superb outside of the whole racism thing.
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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #145 on: April 23, 2016, 02:55:49 PM »
Has Ginger Rogers done anything without Astaire ? That sounds like it'd be more watchable.

Ginger Rogers has been in 73 features and I've seen 37 of them. These are the best without Astaire...
Stage Door is a beautiful classic with Rogers trading barbs with Katharine Hepburn. A lot of familiar faces from the era fill out the cast.
The Major and the Minor is from Billy Wilder and pairs Rogers with Ray Milland.
Monkey Business is from Howard Hawks and she co-stars with Cary Grant. She lets Grant and Marilyn Monroe run with it for a while before coming in to outshine them both.
Star of Midnight is a Thin Man-esque Detective comedy with William Powell


I've also seen all but 3 of Astaire's features. He's a limited actor - though he gets better by his later films - and it never bothered me because he's very charming and the greatest dancer in all of cinema. (Sorry, Gene Kelly.)

Teproc

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #146 on: April 23, 2016, 04:30:20 PM »
Oof, I'm sorry it didn't work for you. To answer some of your questions, yes, I did find most of the humor to be pretty funny. And I thought that the chemistry was there, certainly in the dancers but even beyond that into their interactions the rest of the time. I'll admit to being pretty bored by the rote plot, but the singing and dancing cures many wounds. Even the blackface one, which is superb outside of the whole racism thing.

See, there's my problem : I don't even really find him charismatic. He's a good dancer, sure, but I think I liked Cagney's tapdancing in Yankee Doodle Dandy more. I'm sure Astaire is better, but that blackface number, aside from... you know, that, is typically something where I can see that this is impressive but I don't care for it. It's only when he's in harmony with Rogers that I get into it. In that sense there is chemistry between them of course, just not outside of those specific dancing scenes (even the songs like "A Fine Romance").

@1SO : Monkey Business sounds fun, I'll try and get to that one... at some point.
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Teproc

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #147 on: April 28, 2016, 12:58:43 PM »
An American in Paris (Vincente Minnelli, 1951)



Adam & Sam's take

Pretty Good.

I'm tempted to leave it at that, but that wouldn't be quite fair to the film, which does strive for greatness at times. Those last 15 minutes of course, but there are other rather inspired scenes : Lisa's introduction, Adam's concert fantasy... actually those are all dream sequences, huh. I don't know, but it just doesn't quite get there though. The concert is an excellent example of this : all the time I was thinking "this is pretty good and a clever concept, if only the music was something on the level of Rhapsody in Blue...", and I was thinking the exact same thing during the final sequence. It's impressive, it's even brilliant at times, but it's so long and just doesn't manage to keep up the level of intensity it need to have in order to work as this grand finale. Maybe I'm being harsh on that sequence, maybe the reason it doesn't quite elevate the film is that it's on a completely different level than the rest of it : it's grand and spectacular, something that the central romance really isn't.

Again, it's not that the romance in question doesn't work : Gene Kelly does his best but Leslie Caron is never more than a pretty face (and great dancer, again her dancing intro is by far her best moment)... something that seems to be intended, but makes it pretty hard to buy into the grandiosity of the final number : it tells the story of an incredible love story, but it's all in Gene Kellys head, and not just because it's a dream sequence.

Gene Kelly... he defies the idea that charm must be effortless, because man does he try hard. Too hard sometimes, but still, that "I got rythm" number early on is so, so delightful. Completely won me over and let me overlook his excessive mugging later on. It also has some spoken French, which... yeah, this film has French characters speaking to each other in English for no discernable reason. Le sigh. Everything involving Georges Guétary is pretty painful : guy despises Broadway but has a musical number with flashing lights (in English no less), except for the Strauss thing, that was fun.

It all sounds like I didn't like it : I really did though ! It's an enjoyable ride, and the musical numbers are all pretty fun, the jokes actually land (Oscar Levant as Adam Cook has pretty great timing) and Gene Kelly really is charming... it just doesn't quite get further than that for me.

7/10
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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #148 on: April 28, 2016, 02:18:03 PM »
(psst... wanna post this in the Musical Marathon, too?)
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Junior

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Re: A Filmspotter's Marathon of Filmspotting Marathons
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2016, 02:28:09 PM »
This movie is in my Top 100 because of the last 15 and "I Got Rhythm." The rest worked better for me than for you, but those two sequences are unqualified masterpieces in my estimation. I want to revisit this one this May, so maybe I'll remember to respond to those faults you bring up more clearly.
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