love

Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 26251 times)

MattDrufke

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 738
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2015, 07:39:10 AM »
And I thought that lightsabers would basically CINECAST! up an kill any non-force-adept person who might try to wield one. So either we know much more about Finn than the movie thinks we do or that whole idea has been thrown out.

Not to get super-nerdy here, but Han Solo did use a lightsaber to open up the tauntaun in Empire. Granted, he wasn't fighting with it, but it does set precedent.
@ihatemattdrufke

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3529
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2015, 08:32:17 AM »
I always thought lightsabers didn't look too hard to use... Jedi are able to do more elaborate things with them, such as deflecting blaster shots, but otherwise it seems pretty basic.

And Finn does get dispatched very quickly after picking it up.
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd

Corndog

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 17025
  • Oo-da-lolly, Oo-da-lolly, golly what a day!
    • Corndog Chats
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2015, 09:18:24 AM »
Just wanted to poke my head in with a few thoughts while I somehow wrap my head around how to write an intelligent full review of the movie...

After having watched the original trilogy over, and the prequel trilogy over, and then seeing this new one all in fairly quick succession, I think the determining factor (at least for me) that sets the originals apart from the prequels, and this new one apart from them as well, is simplicity. Re-watching the prequels I found they are too involved, with too much ambiguity, and too many scenes.

What Melvil mentioned earlier about ANH's tightness is exactly what makes the series entertaining I think, and with the prequels, Lucas tried to jam way too much stuff into them, with some poor casting choices (mostly related to Anakin), too much use of CGI and not enough practical effects. Mostly the political edge to the plots came across weaker than the simple good v. evil we get in the original trilogy. For this reason, I still believe The Phantom Menace is the best prequel. While Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar are two of the worst things about the prequels, the bones of the story and the efficiency of the story is strong. The following two get bogged down in the political side of things and for that reason there are longer stretches of things that just aren't entertaining.

With The Force Awakens, Abrams brings back that simplicity. We don't get a lot of context, but we also don't really need it. The good guys are good (which we know anyway because the old good guys are with them) and the bad guys are bad (which we also know because one of them seems to worship one of the old bad guys). Setting the trilogy up in this manner helps create intrigue for 8 and 9 while not feeling slight contained within itself. I was never worried about what the motive was or where the First Order came from, who Snoke was, etc. I trust the filmmakers to make a trilogy that will provide me with most the answers I seek through the course of the three films. Had this been a single film with no known trilogy structure, I would call it out more for lack of context. ANH I think can stand on its own well enough, this one perhaps not quite as much, but still not that bad. I can get into an easy good v. bad interpretation. Abrams also uses practices better CGI/practical effect balance, though I will say that the technology has advanced quite a bit in the last 10 years since a Star Wars film, and that has to be taken into account for the success of this film.

All in all, I really liked The Force Awakens, and can't wait to see it again and think more about it. I think a major reason why I enjoyed it as much as I did was it was a return to story simplicity with mystery and intrigue to set up the remaining films. The casting was good, and as Junior says, Abrams makes it an adventure again with the action scenes and funny dialogue. Really excited to see where Rian Johnson can take this series.
"Time is the speed at which the past decays."

Bad-yuyu

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2015, 09:37:44 AM »
Allright specifically finally made an account to discuss here with you guys ;)

Saw the movie yesterday and here are my quick thoughts. these are just random thoughts and observations and not all equally important to me:

- I knew they would try to recapture the old movies but this... seriously if any other western movie series than Star Wars would just copy another western movies script this blatantly people would be calling bullshit on this. Seriously... not a single new idea in this movie. From the droid carrying the message away from the empire, to the dsesert planet, the cantina bar, to the death of the mentor by the masked vilain with a connection to the heroes to the Death Star 1.3 with the SAME BLEEDING weak spot and the SAME bleeding chasm sequence... seriously...

- So the Rebel Aliance won the war but still consist of 40 people and 15 X-wings?

- Oscar Isaac is great as always, Daisy Ridley and John Boyega are quite relatable. Too bad they wern't given the chance to have their own story.

- Geography means nothing anymore it seems. Planet size space station but everything you need is apparently within 5 min walking distance (or script convenience teleporting distance). Republic "in a far away Galaxy" apparently means 5 planets over... Run through the forest for 10 min. Kylo Ren finds Rey within 5 seconds...

- Neat idea with the anti Lightsabre equipment on that one Stormtrooper. Too bad Stormtroopers otherwise are still useless

- "This was the Death Star. THIS is the Planetkiller Base!" Death Star destroyed one Planet the Base can destroy THREE Planets! BWAHAHAHAHAH this is either a briliant parody or very lazy screenwriting

- Obi-Han-Kenobi death scene and ANOTHER Weakpoint X-Wing chasm approach was a little much

- The force gets stupider with each movie. I used to love the force as this subtle hard to learn power! Now you need to think about it really hard for a second and you mastered mind controll, resisting force powers, lightsabre use.. No problem!

- "Chasm-seperating-opponents Ex Machina" seemed like the most blatant ex machina until ...

- R2D2 Ex Machina is definitely lazy screenwriting

- NO! First trying to be in on the joke by having the Storm Trooper not be affected by Reys command and then still having it work? NO! F**** you movie!

- Han owes a lot of money to two colorful scoundrels and smuggles weaponized creatures, that sounds like an exciting story. To bad we're not watching it! Also: "WAITER! There is some Firefly in my Star Wars!"

- Chewie looks the same as in Episode III... do Wookies not Age?

- The Republic. Cool! They finally have anotehr big political force to be the New orders Riva... nevermind...

- "We lost most of our Fleet" says Lea and then cuts to a shot of exactly as many X-Wings as during the initial attack

- Cinematography is actually very competent here. Sad it couldn't be used on a fresher movie idea : (

- Bunsern-burner "thumbs up" was easily the best scene of the movie :D

- ... the Resistance and the entire system are still boned right? I mean the Sun is still gone!

Overall I didn't like this one. It feels like Abrams and the crew were more concerned with honoring the sacred old Star Wars movies than they were with making a good movie. It just feels all the talent and good cineatography were kind of wasted on this stale reheating of your childhood nostalgia. Say what you want about the extremly flawed prequels. At least they tried and added something to the universe. This movie is so devoid of any spark and so afraid to offend anyone it has nothing interesting to say! Pitty : /

« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 04:34:06 PM by Bad-yuyu »

philip918

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4580
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2015, 10:15:23 AM »
I mean, I explained why I didn't like A New Hope (bad acting, boring direction, terrible writing) and then explained why I liked what TFA was doing better, so it's pretty easy to conceive if you just read the rest of it there.

I honestly can't wrap my head around "bad acting, boring direction, terrible writing."

I started writing up counterpoints, but what's the use? C'est la vie.

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 28709
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2015, 11:27:29 AM »
Allright specifically finally made an account to discuss here with you guys ;)

Seriously... not a single new idea in this movie.

Overall I didn't like this one. It feels like Abrams and the crew were more concerned with honoring the sacred old Star Wars movies than they were with making a good movie. It just feels all the talent and good cineatography were kind of wasted on this stale reheating of your childhood nostalgia. Say what you want about the extremly flawed prequels. At least they tried and added something to the universe. This movie is so devoid of any spark and so afraid to offend anyone it has nothing interesting to say! Pitty : /

Firstly, welcome! Nice to have you here.

"Not a single new idea" is where I think you've gone a bit too far. There is a new idea here, and it forms the core of some key plot lines and relationships: Kylo Ren is conflicted about his background and tempted towards the light side. That's a really interesting twist on Luke's story and here I actually buy it because Driver is a better actor than Hamill was during his Star Wars years. So that's the spark and the something interesting to say, at least so far.
Check out my blog of many topics

“I’m not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!”

Bad-yuyu

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2015, 11:35:17 AM »

Firstly, welcome! Nice to have you here.

"Not a single new idea" is where I think you've gone a bit too far. There is a new idea here, and it forms the core of some key plot lines and relationships: Kylo Ren is conflicted about his background and tempted towards the light side. That's a really interesting twist on Luke's story and here I actually buy it because Driver is a better actor than Hamill was during his Star Wars years. So that's the spark and the something interesting to say, at least so far.

Thank you : )

I admit that I'm being a bit hyperbolic. But I'm doing it to a purpose. For me the way this movie wallows in the Nostalgia and Fanservice of earlier movies at the detriment of it's own Identity, is going too far.

But looking at Box office sales and the raving praise that is thrown out about this movie I fear I might be very lonely with that oppinion!

Melvil

  • Godfather
  • *****
  • Posts: 9977
  • Eek
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2015, 12:11:17 PM »
Hey Bad-yuyu, welcome! Most of your points are things that bothered or at least registered with me, so you're not totally alone. :)

"Not a single new idea" is where I think you've gone a bit too far. There is a new idea here, and it forms the core of some key plot lines and relationships: Kylo Ren is conflicted about his background and tempted towards the light side. That's a really interesting twist on Luke's story and here I actually buy it because Driver is a better actor than Hamill was during his Star Wars years. So that's the spark and the something interesting to say, at least so far.

I wonder about this. It's true there's something a little interesting going on there, but does it actually make sense? Everything we know about the dark side seems to suggest Kylo Ren shouldn't be having the conflict he is. It's quicker, easier, more seductive, blah blah blah. So while your point stands, I also think Bad-yuyu's does, in that at the end of the day they use it to hit all of the same beats we've already seen, only with a variation that might just make it more confused.

Bondo

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 23082
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2015, 02:26:24 PM »
Is this basically just a remake/rehash? Yes, but I think it is kind of the point, things are cyclical. Always two there are. I still think that setting aside originality concerns (how many times have we filmed Macbeth?) I think this is probably one of the better entries. I never thought the original trilogy was quite as a big a breakthrough as others, nor the pretrilogy as bad as others. They are not groundbreaking thematic works but are simple space opera (aka melodrama).

In Jedi we see the black visage of Vader removed to reveal a white man, and now we get the white stormtrooper suit removed to reveal a black man. Nice inversion there.

Love the moment when Finn first sees Rey and he's rushing in to save her and by the time he gets there she's sorted her own thing out. That was a fist pump moment. Love that Rey is engineering smart. Just love Rey and want to have her babies even though one would probably have to become evil because cyclicality.

With Rey taking on the role as the main Jedi for the light side, it draws out a kind of feminine/masculine division in light and dark. It is probably improper to say that masculinity is bad, but it may be a bit more warring. Women are capable of it (surely Gwendoline Christie isn't dead right, because she's completely wasted here) obviously, often because they have to compensate for sexist assumptions of weakness, but there is a certain split. But the broader point that comes out so well in Kylo Ren's angst which will have more time to blossom, is that inside us all is both masculine and feminine. It's about how we harness each. This all is a great foundation for VIII to work with if it chooses.

I would have liked more about how we got from Part VI to Part VII but I suppose that might come later? Feel like the transition from III to IV is smoother.

More thoughts once I dig into the thread I'm sure.

B+ for now, at least it's better than Jurassic World.

Corndog

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 17025
  • Oo-da-lolly, Oo-da-lolly, golly what a day!
    • Corndog Chats
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2015, 02:47:51 PM »
Always two there are.

This is something I thought about afterwards. At the end of Jedi, Emperor Palpatine and Vader are killed in pretty quick succession, leaving 0 Sith left. With the knowledge, according to Yoda in the prequels, that there are always only ever 2, no more, no less; a Master and an Apprentice, I wonder then how the Sith are coming back. Snoke would appear the Master here, with Ren as the Apprentice, but where did he come from, where/who did he learn from? I suppose we don't know enough about him yet and those questions may be answered and as such this is not a criticism of the film, but rather an intriguing question I thought about. I wonder whether Palpatine had another apprentice we didn't know about at the end of Jedi, perhaps sensing Vader's shifting towards the light side...

Another question was about von Sydow's character. The way they set up his meeting with Poe made it seem like he should be a character we knew about before, from the previous trilogy. Not sure if they just meant he's an old dude who was around back them but we don't know about, or if they will be playing with this anymore.

Lastly, I wonder what the theories are concerning Rey's family. I for one think there has to be Skywalker blood there, but not necessarily Luke's daughter. It will be interesting to find out. This whole Star Wars thing has just become the space version of "Keeping Up with the Kardashian's", but with the Skywalker's. "Keeping up with the Skywalker's".
"Time is the speed at which the past decays."