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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 26244 times)

Corndog

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2015, 07:26:49 AM »
Vox posted a different article basically arguing you can't judge TFA until you see where they go. Which is probably true, though I suppose damns it from a self-contained perspective.

I think it's different if you already know there is a trilogy in place. With that in mind, I don't think any of them need to be "self-contained" movies, as they are part of a larger trilogy. When Lucas developed the idea for Star Wars, he said it was three separate stories which he broke into three separate trilogies. I believe this third trilogy is different than what he originally had planned back in the 70s, but the concept of a single story across the trilogy I imagine holds true. Unless you'd rather they give us a single, 7 hour movie instead of a trilogy...
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Jared

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2015, 10:39:28 AM »
At their best the Star Wars movies are formed like mythical tales with broadly defined characters and a little bit of mystery about how everyone fits together. Maybe I've just grown a little bit tired of gritty James Bond getting his testicles abused in a torture scene or seeing the absurd trailer for the "dark and grown-up" Superman/Batman movie, but I had a lot of fun watching some of these Star Wars heroes, even if they were just reheating all the old character traits and stories. I just found the whole thing very pleasant, which isn't a feeling I get from many blockbuster action movies anymore.

While I generally hate the "it's just a popcorn flick, sit back and enjoy it" defense, I suppose it just feels a lot more applicable when I actually like the subject movie.

Melvil

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2015, 11:03:27 AM »
So with "too repetitive of A New Hope" as a popular talking point, let me expand on one line of questioning. When can a classic be sufficiently classic to allow for repetition and reimagination? Romeo and Juliet becomes Baz Lurhman's Romeo + Juliet and West Side Story. Pride and Prejudice becomes Bride and Prejudice (in addition to just being Pride and Prejudice about 20 times). Same goes for much of Shakespeare, Austen, Bronte, Dickens, etc. Is it okay so long as it is going across media?

I don't see a re-adaptation as being the same thing, since in continuity that story and the original story didn't both happen. I also think you are correct that being a cross-medium adaptation gives more leeway, since the process inherently allows for more interpretation than a direct movie-to-movie remake.

The key place where simplicity hurt is with the first use of the weapon on the Republic. I'm not sure they make clear what is being destroyed. Is it just some of the Republic, is it the very heart of the Republic, basically destroying it as a political establishment? Either way, I don't have a good grasp of who the people of the Republic or those planets were. I can obviously grasp that it is horrific, but it is fairly weightless for the deaths of millions or billions of people. Contrast that to the threatened second use, which was a clear existential threat to the Rebellion, but that seems to be like a few hundred people. It just happens they are the people we know and care about. Shouldn't I mourn the death of a billion more than fear the death of a thousand?

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say "shallow rehash". In A New Hope, we had context and a reason to care about Alderaan. You felt the significance. I honestly don't even know what planets blew up in TFA. I don't think they told us, and nobody seemed to care. For that matter I don't have any sort of understanding of the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance. Or even how the First Order plays into it all, where they came from, or why they have all of the Empire's tech. I find it remarkable how much lack of clarity there is despite taking the structure from a movie that is so clear about these things.

I think it's different if you already know there is a trilogy in place. With that in mind, I don't think any of them need to be "self-contained" movies, as they are part of a larger trilogy. When Lucas developed the idea for Star Wars, he said it was three separate stories which he broke into three separate trilogies. I believe this third trilogy is different than what he originally had planned back in the 70s, but the concept of a single story across the trilogy I imagine holds true. Unless you'd rather they give us a single, 7 hour movie instead of a trilogy...

My concern is that the next movie is going to have to spend a bunch of time doing the groundwork that this one skipped over. Traditionally you would have the first movie in the trilogy set up the foundation for the next two, but I don't think TFA did that very well. As first chapters, both ANH and TPM give you a much more complete understanding of their respective universes.

Bad-yuyu

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2015, 03:52:23 PM »
I find it remarkable how much lack of clarity there is despite taking the structure from a movie that is so clear about these things.

I find it remarkable how almost unanimously critics don't care about this or even praise it. Just look at the Filmspotting crew. They tore movies appart for much smaller plot or stylistic discrepancies. But with star Wars it's not a discrepancy or lack of information. It's a Mystery!

I think I truely did not appreciate the extent of the power of nostalgia, and simply what people associate with a brand, until now!

Totoro

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2015, 05:09:10 PM »
I mean, we all knew that people will be a lot harder on this film than any other film this year so it's fairly impossible to take people seriously who talk in absolutes and/or make hyperbolic statements.

Totoro

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2015, 05:11:20 PM »
No Marvel film is better than SW:TFA. There, I said it.

But then I'm cold on Marvel.

I just don't see it how in a year full of very good action movies (no not the Marvel movies) this messy nostalgia rehash can be treated as a movie of the year contender...

I'm honestly asking: does the third Death Star with the exact same weakspot and all the other silly stuff somehow become less unimaginative if you're a Star Wars fan? I mean if any other movie pulled this kind of copycat shit critics would be nailing it to the cross. Think about it. Imagine if Guardians of the Galaxy seriously would have had a Planet destroying Space station that you kill by flying into it with a fighter through a corridor and blasting the one weakspot. People would have hated it.

But somehow just it being Star Wars seems to make every plothole a mystery, every blatantly copied idea an homage or callback, every in your face Fanservice a theme... I truely don't get it...

Marvel is far worst. At least The Force Awakens took 30 years to copy its plot. Marvel movies copy each other's plots literally months after release.

Critics weren't nailing Guardians on the cross for having a spaceship crash into the ground or faking out a character death for tears. Don't understand your shock with critics here.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 05:12:56 PM by Totoro »

Bad-yuyu

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2015, 05:27:09 PM »
I mean, we all knew that people will be a lot harder on this film than any other film this year so it's fairly impossible to take people seriously who talk in absolutes and/or make hyperbolic statements.


Critics weren't nailing Guardians on the cross for having a spaceship crash into the ground or faking out a character death for tears. Don't understand your shock with critics here.

Not sure if you want me to react or not. It's up to you if you chose to take my opinion seriously.

Anyway. I'm not saying Guardians should not have been criticized.
I also accept that people like different stuff and me not liking the movie doesn't mean others can't like it.  But I don't get how critics don't seem to find any objections with the things I listed, when they so despise the exact same things in other movies... I'm sorry I don't feel people are being harder. To me it feels like the opposite.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 05:32:34 PM by Bad-yuyu »

Totoro

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2015, 05:53:56 PM »
I mean, we all knew that people will be a lot harder on this film than any other film this year so it's fairly impossible to take people seriously who talk in absolutes and/or make hyperbolic statements.


Critics weren't nailing Guardians on the cross for having a spaceship crash into the ground or faking out a character death for tears. Don't understand your shock with critics here.

Not sure if you want me to react or not. It's up to you if you chose to take my opinion seriously.

Anyway. I'm not saying Guardians should not have been criticized.
I also accept that people like different stuff and me not liking the movie doesn't mean others can't like it.  But I don't get how critics don't seem to find any objections with the things I listed, when they so despise the exact same things in other movies... I'm sorry I don't feel people are being harder. To me it feels like the opposite.

And I'm saying they don't + giving examples.

Bad-yuyu

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2015, 07:38:14 PM »
And I'm saying they don't + giving examples.

Wait! I might have initially missunderstood your statement. Are you saying things like copying other movies, using Ex Machina devices, "saying not showing", or using a "bigger is better" approach are also not criticized in other movies?

karlwinslow

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2015, 01:36:02 AM »
It was fun. I like that a lot of the plot was similar to the first one but twisted in different ways. The father son dynamic shift being the most obv.

I thought that last scene was perfect. The look on hamils face totally earned the no dialogue moment (and this is a totally superficial analysis, but he looked waaayyy cooler than I thought he was going to. That beard was on point.)

Adam Driver was great as a not quite grown up/mature dark side guy. Imitating Vader with the mask and voice, then when you finally get the reveal he did look surprisingly kidlike.

The girl was great, Boyega was ok, Ford was surprisingly great (really haven't liked anything from him in years), super stoked for Rian to take over.

 

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