Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 26248 times)

Dave the Necrobumper

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12730
  • If I keep digging maybe I will get out of this hol
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #140 on: January 06, 2016, 01:36:09 PM »
The First Order - If the Empire was defeated, how did The First Order seemingly become a drop-in replacement with all of the same technology and scale of forces within 10 years or so?

In Return of the Jedi the Rebel forces destroy the new Death Star and kill the Emperor and his second-in-command (Darth Vader). This would be like wiping Washington DC and New York off the map, killing the US President and Vice-President. Yes the head is dead, but the rest of the empire lives and functions. There would be a power struggle and someone would wrest control of the resources of the old empire and a new one would arise. The structural weaknesses that saw the demise of the Roman Empire would not be in play, so while there would be some splintering of the forces, it is easy to imagine that after 30 years one group would be powerful enough to bring control to a large part of the former empires resources.

Melvil

  • Godfather
  • *****
  • Posts: 9977
  • Eek
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #141 on: January 06, 2016, 01:46:59 PM »
Apparently there are canon novels that occur after Jedi and before The Force Awakens. It is a trilogy called Aftermath. Only one of them has been released so far, with the second coming this summer, and the third the summer after that. Anyone else aware of this? I know it doesn't help with defending the movie(s) of the new trilogy since they are separate and it's kind of silly to assume viewers will read these books for the information that presumably should be in the films, but I would be curious to learn if any holes are filled in with these novels, or if they walk down a different story line altogether.

I've heard about them, but I'm not particularly interested (wouldn't have been even if I had liked TFA). In my mind they're about as canon as The Clone Wars, Rebels, The Force Unleashed, and other supposedly "canon" material. It's cool if people enjoy that stuff, but for me if it's not in the movie it's basically fan fiction.

The First Order - If the Empire was defeated, how did The First Order seemingly become a drop-in replacement with all of the same technology and scale of forces within 10 years or so?

In Return of the Jedi the Rebel forces destroy the new Death Star and kill the Emperor and his second-in-command (Darth Vader). This would be like wiping Washington DC and New York off the map, killing the US President and Vice-President. Yes the head is dead, but the rest of the empire lives and functions. There would be a power struggle and someone would wrest control of the resources of the old empire and a new one would arise. The structural weaknesses that saw the demise of the Roman Empire would not be in play, so while there would be some splintering of the forces, it is easy to imagine that after 30 years one group would be powerful enough to bring control to a large part of the former empires resources.

Sure, I know that the empire wouldn't have been instantly dismantled, but the implications are clearly that defeating the Emperor will ultimately bring it down. Tarkin himself stated that the only thing keeping the individual planets in line was fear. Without the death star, the emperor, and Vader they have neither leadership or fear in their favor.

The opening crawl in TFA also states that The First Order came to power only after Luke disappeared, which seems to be a much more recent thing, so again I'm a bit confused about the timeline and how a consolidation of power came about, especially since they seem to be serving The Knights of Ren which are yet another element we don't know much about.

Bondo

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 23082
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #142 on: January 06, 2016, 02:20:04 PM »
Who's game for a group marathon after 9 comes out!? I think there would be some great discussion based on this thread. Would be especially curious to hear the prequels discussed.

I'd be game. The Harry Potter marathon was fun.

Sandy

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12075
  • "The life we build, we never stop creating.”
    • Sandy's Cinematic Musings
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #143 on: January 06, 2016, 02:20:40 PM »
I'm there too!

ses

  • Administrator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 14979
    • Sarah's Kitchen Adventures
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #144 on: January 06, 2016, 04:05:52 PM »
What's up with the Supreme Leader?  It seemed out of place to me and cartoonish.  Is he present in some of the novels or a totally new character?
"It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart"

http://sarahskitchenadventures.blogspot.com/

Dave the Necrobumper

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12730
  • If I keep digging maybe I will get out of this hol
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2016, 04:07:06 AM »
The First Order - If the Empire was defeated, how did The First Order seemingly become a drop-in replacement with all of the same technology and scale of forces within 10 years or so?

In Return of the Jedi the Rebel forces destroy the new Death Star and kill the Emperor and his second-in-command (Darth Vader). This would be like wiping Washington DC and New York off the map, killing the US President and Vice-President. Yes the head is dead, but the rest of the empire lives and functions. There would be a power struggle and someone would wrest control of the resources of the old empire and a new one would arise. The structural weaknesses that saw the demise of the Roman Empire would not be in play, so while there would be some splintering of the forces, it is easy to imagine that after 30 years one group would be powerful enough to bring control to a large part of the former empires resources.

Sure, I know that the empire wouldn't have been instantly dismantled, but the implications are clearly that defeating the Emperor will ultimately bring it down. Tarkin himself stated that the only thing keeping the individual planets in line was fear. Without the death star, the emperor, and Vader they have neither leadership or fear in their favor.

The opening crawl in TFA also states that The First Order came to power only after Luke disappeared, which seems to be a much more recent thing, so again I'm a bit confused about the timeline and how a consolidation of power came about, especially since they seem to be serving The Knights of Ren which are yet another element we don't know much about.

Missed that bit about the timing of the rise of the First Order in the opening crawl.

Corndog

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 17025
  • Oo-da-lolly, Oo-da-lolly, golly what a day!
    • Corndog Chats
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2016, 07:39:24 AM »
Missed that bit about the timing of the rise of the First Order in the opening crawl.

Yep:

Quote
Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts....
"Time is the speed at which the past decays."

Bad-yuyu

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #147 on: January 08, 2016, 09:03:37 AM »
Welcome to the film corner of the internet, where everything must be absolutely perfect or it is terrible. Say "thank you" to Honest Trailers, Red Letter Media, and the like for their part in it. Throw in a series which everybody loves but is not actually that good to begin with and you've got yourself a recipe for ultra-critical reactions.

This is simply not true. At least not for me. But in MY world there are movies I like a lot or a little or find ok or just entertaining or I hate. And yes there are people that only give perfect or terrible scores but nearly all the critics in this thread have layed out a detailed account of what they dislike and why. Claiming that people are now just "hating on the movie" because it's not perfect to me rather speaks to an issue on your side with accepting that people didn't like a movie you loved than a "perfect or terrible" kind of rating system on the side of the movies detractors here!

I will gladly outlay again why I didn't like the movie and explain why I think Rey's use of force is redicolous to me. But Only if there is an interest in a discussion.  But if it's only going to be dismissed as spite I'd rather spend the time spinning on my office chair shouting "weeeeeeeee" or smth : )
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 10:35:40 AM by Bad-yuyu »

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 28709
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2016, 10:29:36 AM »
There's a lot of missing context there. I was responding to 1SO's prior post and I later clarified that I was talking more about the idea of finding "plot holes" rather than, you know, engaging in actual criticism. Here is a rant that I mostly (though not entirely) agree with on the subject: https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277

So you do what you want. If you're going to talk about Rey's force journey, I probably won't respond because I've already pointed out how closely her path follows Luke's in ANH three times now. If you bring something new to the table, I'm all ears. But do whatever you want, I'm not the boss here, I don't control the conversation. I only wish for a higher level and work to achieve it.
Check out my blog of many topics

“I’m not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!”

Bad-yuyu

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #149 on: January 08, 2016, 10:41:37 AM »
 For me "It was also this bad in the original movies" detracts the original movie not excuse the current one. There are differences but they shouldn't matter. Reys "thinking about the force really hard for a second and mastering it" journey is unbelievable to me on internal logic alone. Independent of what the previous 6 movies did beyond world building!

But if you don't care then let's just not get into anything. it's fine : )
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 10:44:32 AM by Bad-yuyu »