Author Topic: Brooklyn  (Read 5988 times)

verbALs

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2016, 12:21:34 AM »
On the subject of choice, you write very clearly, of Brooklyn as a writerly exercise of placing her in a position where she is forced into making a choice. The skill of the writing is that she arrives at that position in the most elegant of ways. Events or plot devices (if you want to view it from a remove) gently steer her towards a point where; instead of following others good intentions for her, and some nice options at that, she is has to decide for herself. Again the choice between the life in Brooklyn or the life at home are still very attractive choices. Until the old bag in the village forces her to choose there has t been a spiky moment. She flows with the river; echoing the lives of women in these generations; expected to follow a certain path.

You out your finger on what seems so natural for this era and yet what seems so modern. She has talents that in this modern generation would be followed without too much obstruction. My daughters expectation to follow her career in architecture which doesn't appear to have a natural hole for family; nor expectation that she should make that part of the schedule. Nature will intervene but society won't. Or that's the ideal. All we do is not have those expectations...that she will have a family herself. So Hornby makes a soft clash between her talents and Jane Eyre-ish capability and the imperatives of the 50s...hence the modern treatment. He writes in a way that avoids the clash most women would have suffered in this age.

The result is nice but it isn't contrived. It's just a soft answer to a writerly problem of avoiding the thudding expectations of 50s society. I wish you could compare and contrast now with "Carol" which has an entirely different approach but has its own elegant more intellectual less working class (rich people make up their own society to suit themselves) answers.

Thank you for entering into a bit of discussion and allowing me to wake up and have the chance for a bit of writing of my own. Bliss.

Btw guy who wrote this also wrote the book High Fidelity.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 01:36:32 AM by verbALs »
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Totoro

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2016, 03:28:07 AM »
I love this film for reasons that I don't believe were brought up just yet. I love this film for its direction and how it informs itself through the cinematography. But also for its casting.



This is my favorite shot.

I want you to notice one thing. Now, I think, maybe, just maybe, this has to do with me not being a parent or a person over 60, but look at this image. Do you notice anything about their faces? Do you notice how incredibly young they look? Maybe I'm crazy or something, but I have never seen a movie about young immigrants in America that accentuates the youthful quality of their lead's faces as much as this film. Usually the faces of youth have a lot of make-up on them to make them look as adult as possible, but this film cast actors with baby faces for these two roles to look as young as possible. When you compare Tony with Jim later, you can see pretty clearly that Jim has grown into his features. Dumbhall Gleeson has a very adult face. But these two don't. My theory to the reason is that the director wanted us to realize just how young immigrants are/were, especially back in this era and setting. I always had this distance to my great grandparents (who were immigrants) - I always thought of them as adults but in truth they were this young. But I never felt or intellectualized it until this movie. I think this quality of putting a face to a person is unique to filmmaking.

But this shot also comes at a penultimate moment - will Ellis stay? Will she marry Tony? And that's the other thing to notice. Tony is out-of-focus. As Sandy said, this film is about choice - it's about Ellis' choice. A directorial modus operandi is used through the cinematography throughout to isolate Ellis within the frame whether its through racking the focus or, as shown much earlier in a shot I cannot find, staying on Ellis' face as she watches her friend dance near the start of the film. It's a particular kind of filmmaking that focuses on the main character's emotional journey more than the story which is far rarer than we see in modern day storytelling. It's also, in my opinion, the perfect style for actors who understand that the most important thing about film acting is the eyes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 03:30:30 AM by Totoro »

Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2016, 11:33:43 AM »
Totoro, I love that "gets all quiet" shot. You bring out some very key points about the movie. The choice to make the leads so youthful, really does showcases the concept of, their whole lives are ahead of them. Dream big.

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It's a particular kind of filmmaking that focuses on the main character's emotional journey more than the story which is far rarer than we see in modern day storytelling. It's also, in my opinion, the perfect style for actors who understand that the most important thing about film acting is the eyes.

Now this is perfect cinema, in my own eyes. :)
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 11:53:38 AM »
On the subject of choice, you write very clearly, of Brooklyn as a writerly exercise of placing her in a position where she is forced into making a choice. The skill of the writing is that she arrives at that position in the most elegant of ways. Events or plot devices (if you want to view it from a remove) gently steer her towards a point where; instead of following others good intentions for her, and some nice options at that, she is has to decide for herself. Again the choice between the life in Brooklyn or the life at home are still very attractive choices. Until the old bag in the village forces her to choose there has t been a spiky moment. She flows with the river; echoing the lives of women in these generations; expected to follow a certain path.

Sometimes the spiky moments are just what we need to jolt us out of complacency and our "going with the flow." Bless the "old bag", for her nastiness woke Eilis up to the fact that she did have a mind of her own after all.

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You out your finger on what seems so natural for this era and yet what seems so modern. She has talents that in this modern generation would be followed without too much obstruction. My daughters expectation to follow her career in architecture which doesn't appear to have a natural hole for family; nor expectation that she should make that part of the schedule. Nature will intervene but society won't. Or that's the ideal. All we do is not have those expectations...that she will have a family herself. So Hornby makes a soft clash between her talents and Jane Eyre-ish capability and the imperatives of the 50s...hence the modern treatment. He writes in a way that avoids the clash most women would have suffered in this age.

I haven't heard of the term "you out your finger" before. :) Your daughter may think Eiles' compliant behavior very strange indeed, but she may appreciate the comparison to her own experiences and how far things have come societally. I really like what you said here, "Nature will intervene but society won't." Yes, let nature guide. A career is wonderful and good, but so is parenting. These are personal, quiet choices where the "voice" to listen to, should be your own.

Quote
The result is nice but it isn't contrived. It's just a soft answer to a writerly problem of avoiding the thudding expectations of 50s society. I wish you could compare and contrast now with "Carol" which has an entirely different approach but has its own elegant more intellectual less working class (rich people make up their own society to suit themselves) answers.

Thank you for entering into a bit of discussion and allowing me to wake up and have the chance for a bit of writing of my own. Bliss.

I'm happy you had such a great morning! I would like to see that "Carol" comparison, so maybe tomorrow morning you could do a write up. :)

Quote
Btw guy who wrote this also wrote the book High Fidelity.

What?! I would have never guessed this in a million years! Are there aspects in these two stories that have any similarities?
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

oldkid

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2016, 10:04:20 AM »
I think Sandy hit the nail on the head for a way of interpreting the film.

I love the final scene with Miss Kelly, not because it takes the blame off of Eilis, but because she is the catalyst to wake her up, to realize what she should have realized long ago-- she was already married. She had no choice, actually.  And she had to stand up for who she was, not who others wanted her to be.  And this will hurt people's feelings and really hurt her mother, who wanted her to stay and care for her.  (I love that there wasn't any thought of bringing her mother to America... it just wouldn't have worked, as she seemed too frail).  Eillis might place blame on her town or Miss Kelly, but the situation was created by her own passivity.  Whether she knows it or not, I think the audience was supposed to know it.
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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2016, 01:15:45 AM »
" the situation was created by her own passivity"

Yes, I believe the audience was suppposed to know it. She may know it in time.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2016, 01:19:26 PM »
oldkid, I take your point, but I cannot tell if you are defending her or condemning her behaviour up to the point when she fesses up.
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oldkid

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2016, 12:39:18 AM »
oldkid, I take your point, but I cannot tell if you are defending her or condemning her behaviour up to the point when she fesses up.

That's okay, I can't tell if the movie is, either.
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dassix

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2016, 11:50:15 AM »
Agreed, douchey move on the part of Tony. And when the movie finished I was not left with a happy ever after feeling but rather with a well, that might go terribly wrong in a number of ways sense of doom.

Exactly what I took from the ending.  They forewarned her of Italian guys that talk about baseball nonstop - which he did not do initially.  Then she came to realize that baseball was very important to him.  I got the impression he was putting up a huge facade for her, just as she was warned against.  She then cuts ties with her blood family, Ireland and her home - to basically go with a man I felt that she was not enthralled by. 

 

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