Author Topic: Brooklyn  (Read 6072 times)

verbALs

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 02:01:03 AM »
Sorry DH I wasn't talking about your review. It was the movie and Carol that prompted the point. Interestingly, Carol was written contemporaneously. I'm not sure about Brooklyn. Highsmith wrote it under a pseudonym, the first indication that the subject matter held taboos that have weakened in the meantime. I wonder if some of the scenes, which show Carol and her best friend quite open with their (quite natural) behaviour in public, are part of the book. Hence feeling both films bridge a contextual gap. To reverse engineer; the 1953 version of either film wouldn't look like this. This would be my contention anyway. It adds an extra layer (for me). The modern writers themselves of both films insert themselves into the text, because they are modern writers. So I find both films quite seamless in marrying 50s stories with a modern context. It doesn't jar and that feels like a skill.

One example. Ronan as an actress projects supreme confidence; especially when she returns to Ireland. What that confidence would have been interpreted as back in these days is interesting. Brazenness perhaps. The gender gap would have been expressed by language which perpetuated it. Using words to put her down or try to embarrass her into being less confident. Deprecating comments. There isn't much of that in the film. In contrast a more modern movie, Joy, is filled with language which tries to diminish the ambitions of the lady at its centre. Even at a point where she has risen well above her own level of ambition, a moment of failure is met by her father saying he should never have encouraged her ambition as if the ambition itself came from him; he gave her permission, instead of it springing from her natural talent and drive. Language is so powerful. Discrimination is delivered like a payload by it.
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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 12:23:25 PM »
Tush. Sandy is much better than this movie. Perhaps Singin' in the Rain would be the more apt analogy.

:))

Well, it is my #5 favorite!


Is it the movie itself, or do I get to play a part in it? If so, pretty please let me be her.

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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 07:49:42 PM »
You're the movie, not the characters.
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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 08:08:53 PM »
I've a smile on my face. :)
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 09:28:40 PM »
Cosmo's mine though.
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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 05:54:46 PM »
Cosmo's mine though.

You chose the best character. :)
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

heisenbergman

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2016, 09:18:05 PM »
I just saw Brooklyn and I'm most inclined to agree with the article linked and sentiment in the OP.

In the Ireland section, it was Eilis who was being most unethical: She was entertaining another man behind her husband's back, and she was leading people to expect things of her by deceitfully hiding the fact that she was already married. Ms Kelly was being mean, sure, but she was telling the truth. And Eilis' reaction to it feels more like damage control rather than a genuine realization of what she was doing wrong / that she belonged in Brooklyn with her husband. Aside from that, I felt that the narrative was a bit flat and languid in parts.

NOTE: I just read that this confrontation with Ms Kelly wasn't in the book. In the book, Eilis arrives at the realization that she wanted to go back on her own. I think that, in this regard, the film should have just followed the book.

Saorise is amazing though. She shines and is able to project all the feelings and emotions required of her character remarkably. Gave this a 6 on imdb.

And am I the only one who never felt she was actually in love with her husband ?

Nope. I felt like she was just getting swept along by his emotions and romantic manipulations. She definitely didn't seem excited when he proposed to her. I thought this is what the film was going for, thus making an even harder choice for her when she returned to Ireland and meets Jim, but then she goes back to the US and her husband quite easily and that's that.

The more I think about her, the stranger her character seems to me.

I think she was in love with Tony, but wasn't ready to get married. Tony's timing on the proposal was very unfair to her. At this point, even though Tony and Eilis made for a charming couple, I wasn't sure if Tony was really the nice guy he was being portrayed as (actually, he came into the story as a bit too perfect, thus my reservations) - and his proposal even gave me more pause regarding him.

To be honest, I'm on the fence regarding Tony and Eilis as a couple at the end of the film. If the film's goal was to tell a romantic story and show the genuine love that Tony and Eilis ha for each other against all odds... I think the film was unsuccessful in that regard.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 09:42:24 PM by heisenbergman »

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 10:16:14 PM »
Agreed, douchey move on the part of Tony. And when the movie finished I was not left with a happy ever after feeling but rather with a well, that might go terribly wrong in a number of ways sense of doom.
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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2016, 02:38:19 PM »
Putting this here and then going back to read this thread...

A movie about the struggle of the heart and personal growth versus duty and expectation? Now I know you have so much insight on these themes. I would love to hear your expanded thoughts...but there are people taking your time, probably.  ??? ;D

{Now I have caught up; I can see echoes of "Jane Eyre" in this story. I wonder if you have any thoughts on that?}

My review- a little grist to the mill of discussion;

A fifties setting and a fifties ethic; even though it is interesting to reflect on its modern context. By this I mean, it didn't feel particularly old fashioned, in its sexual politics. The central character is moved around by the decisions of others initially, but she has a strength of character which the actor makes shine. She reflects the "land of opportunity" feel of the American dream. The Fifties thing is that she meets a bunch of resolutely nice people on her travels. A boss who doesn't make her life hell for a serious bout of homesickness. In a world of BIG drama, and plot devices that are horrible or overblown, this film positively floats along on subtlety and warm feeling. For a modern writer, a male modern writer, as well, it has a light touch and a good attitude towards the world. The manipulation of the writer comes through. At moments, deus ex pen takes control, to move the plot along. Unexplained medical conditions that might be described as a fatal case of "End of Chapter 10". Or secrets discovered due to a chance meeting 20 pages ago. The film is 80 odd minutes long, so it has a greyhound sleekness, in its authorial efficiency

What you see is the irrevocable nature of decisions made, and how they change the person that you are. Usually, this is executed in a harsh world, as if the writer wants to display his knowingness about life. "Brooklyn" takes small actions and shows how these irreversibly affect a life. All beautifully rendered. If the accusation is that it's all too nice; then there's nothing wrong with a bit of nice. This may be the "nicest" film I'll see all year, and be all the more original for that, because most movies want to kick-ass. Hence the sense that this is a movie out of time but with a modern surety in its way of depicting sex, relationships and how to get along when you're a young immigrant girl. We should see the version with a Syrian girl in Germany with as much good intention and human warmth.

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Sandy

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Re: Brooklyn
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 04:03:06 PM »
A few thoughts...

Eilis is a young woman who has had very little experience with the world. So far she's been compliant to all that has been brought before her: her work for Miss Kelly, her sponsorship in America, her bookkeeping course, her boyfriend and his wishes. With each of these developments, she is being steered and goes along with them, but is slowly learning to weigh things out and that she too gets to choose. This is where I think Tony is really great. He could have been much more pushy, taking advantage of her amenability, but he really does ask her, on numerous times, what she wants. He wants her though, so he is being assertive. :) I believe she is in love with him, but hasn't had this experience before, so is rightly naive.

When she goes home, she continues to be steered: her mother's wish for her to stay longer, her sister's job, her friend setting her up. But now, it's becoming impossible for her to continue being so blasted amenable, because she can't be all things to all people. She makes efforts to break away from others expectations, by her continually telling them that she's returning to Brooklyn, but nobody's listening, so she falls back into her pattern of allowing others to choose for her. It's difficult to fight others choices when they are pleasant and logical and when it has been the pattern.

The life she is falling into makes her second guess her one choice she did make. It was a big choice and she fears that she may have messed up. The talk of her being unethical is interesting to me. Her ethics have been to be good and obedient, but in doing so, she did mess up on the ethic of being truthful. People are imperfect and confusing, even to themselves. I appreciate that she's on a journey of self discovery, where she's learning to know her own mind and to trust it.


As for Jane Eyre... 'Choice' It's a woman's plight, needing to find the power to have it. "I am no bird; and no net ensnares me: I am a free human being with an independent will." I'll think more on this, but am interested in your thoughts, verbALs.
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."