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Author Topic: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"  (Read 11925 times)

verbALs

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 12:12:01 AM »
You read some. McGee. I admire the acuity of JDMs vision on people. Elmore Leonard's heroes are so admirable. Both may be aspirational in a "I wish I could be cool" way. But I've been taking my retirement when I can like McGee for a while (stopping now) so it has rubbed off. I see it as wise writing.

Maybe the lessons of JE will come. At the moment it's mostly Bronte sees things clearly or she sets them up to be clear. Rochesters telepathy is too sure for any breathing human. Looks great on paper tho.
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

verbALs

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 02:14:08 PM »
Well I give up quoting altogether because it would be the entire book. Consistently high level writing. The scenes with the guests arrived are sublime. Janes descriptions of her feelings. The drawing of herself compared to this paragon woman. Sublime writing.

I feel like I can speed read knowing I'll read it again or know which sections to come back and pore over. There seem to be more nuances to the laughter plot line here. It all feeds the building of character which is already monumental.
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

Sandy

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2016, 12:14:26 AM »
I'm almost there in the book, so will reply soon, and will also reply about McGee! Great choice!

but I did want to answer this little bit,

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Rochesters telepathy is too sure for any breathing human. Looks great on paper tho.

I believe you're right. It might be a woman author's wishful thinking, having a man read her character's mind, but some people too are extremely easy to read. I was once told that I should never play poker, because my eyes reveal everything. :D

I could wear sunglasses, couldn't I?

verbALs

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2016, 12:44:16 AM »
And Jane is so strikingly confident that the direct connection between her thoughts and her expression may have made her easy to read. I somewhat feel the same but I've had advice about keeping the immediate reaction off my face and letting the more considered response develop in my head. Anyone looking at me is already reacting to the look on my face. I'm not comfortable with being told to be less than brutally honest. I'm not a complete Neanderthal. I can see the advantage of managing the message better. I had a long conversation with another salesman (I believe you stop doing that job you never stop being a salesman though. Not for a second) and the levels of continual outward challenge to the world that you get into as a mindset is both ferocious and unnerving. The look on the face is another weapon in the assault on the world. All I can remember from meeting you was smiling a lot. You put me in a very good mood but Devlin though. Hmmm. Perhaps I could sense another lion in the room. I was somewhat deflecting his "who is this guy?" Questions. I don't like talking about work as if it defines anything in people. Perhaps that showed on my face. You can see it was a very entertaining evening for me.
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

Sandy

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2016, 09:46:19 PM »
You read some. McGee. I admire the acuity of JDMs vision on people. Elmore Leonard's heroes are so admirable. Both may be aspirational in a "I wish I could be cool" way. But I've been taking my retirement when I can like McGee for a while (stopping now) so it has rubbed off. I see it as wise writing.

I haven't read any of Leonard's books :( so can't compare his characters to you, but I know McGee! Yes, he "takes his retirement in installments." How best to compare you two? hmmm, how about words out of his own mouth?! 

I tried to look disarming. I am pretty good at that. I have one of those useful faces.

Get out there and sell. Gleam those teeth. Look them square in the eye. You get out of it what you put into it. A smile will take you a long way. Shake hands as if you mean it. Remember names. ;)   (Had to put a salesmanship quote in here!)

Education is something that should be apart from the necessities of earning a living, not a tool therefore. It needs contemplation, fallow periods, the measured and guided study of the history of man’s reiteration of the most agonizing question of all: Why?

The only thing in the world worth a damn is the strange, touching, pathetic, awesome nobility of the individual human spirit.

I think there is some kind of divine order in the universe. Every leaf on every tree in the world is unique. As far as we can see, there are other galaxies, all slowly spinning, numerous as the leaves in the forest. In an infinite number of planets, there has to be an infinite number with life forms on them. Maybe this planet is one of the discarded mistakes. Maybe it's one of the victories. We'll never know.


Just as I figured. I believe you two are the same person. :)


Well I give up quoting altogether because it would be the entire book. Consistently high level writing. The scenes with the guests arrived are sublime. Janes descriptions of her feelings. The drawing of herself compared to this paragon woman. Sublime writing.

:) Yes, copying down all that I wish too, could bog this thread way down! But, there is something I want to note about a film adaptation. Not only does Jane subject herself to creating and studying those comparison drawings, she first gives herself a talking too, that is so self-excoriating, it leaves me stunned in sympathy.

Arraigned at my own bar, Memory having given her evidence of the hopes, wishes, sentiments I had been cherishing since last night--of the general state of mind in which I had indulged for nearly a fortnight past; Reason having come forward and told, in her own quiet way a plain, unvarnished tale, showing how I had rejected the real, and rabidly devoured the ideal;--I pronounced judgment to this effect: That a greater fool than Jane Eyre had never breathed the breath of life; that a more fantastic idiot had never surfeited herself on sweet lies, and swallowed poison as if it were nectar.

"YOU," I said, "a favourite with Mr. Rochester? YOU gifted with the power of pleasing him? YOU of importance to him in any way? Go! your folly sickens me. And you have derived pleasure from occasional tokens of preference--equivocal tokens shown by a gentleman of family and a man of the world to a dependent and a novice. How dared you? Poor stupid dupe!--Could not even self-interest make you wiser? You repeated to yourself this morning the brief scene of last night?--Cover your face and be ashamed! He said something in praise of your eyes, did he? Blind puppy! Open their bleared lids and look on your own accursed senselessness! It does good to no woman to be flattered by her superior, who cannot possibly intend to marry her; and it is madness in all women to let a secret love kindle within them, which, if unreturned and unknown, must devour the life that feeds it...



Harsh, necessary and perfect in written form, but what to do with it in a film? Charlotte Gainsbourg looks in a mirror, feels all of that above in a moment and says,



It too is perfect and is part of the reason this adaptation is in my top 100.

 
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I feel like I can speed read knowing I'll read it again or know which sections to come back and pore over. There seem to be more nuances to the laughter plot line here. It all feeds the building of character which is already monumental.

Wasn't sure if this aspect would grow on you, or be increasingly frustrating. :) I'm not speed reading, but it's difficult to put the story aside sometimes and come back to the real world.

And Jane is so strikingly confident that the direct connection between her thoughts and her expression may have made her easy to read. I somewhat feel the same but I've had advice about keeping the immediate reaction off my face and letting the more considered response develop in my head. Anyone looking at me is already reacting to the look on my face. I'm not comfortable with being told to be less than brutally honest. I'm not a complete Neanderthal. I can see the advantage of managing the message better. I had a long conversation with another salesman (I believe you stop doing that job you never stop being a salesman though. Not for a second) and the levels of continual outward challenge to the world that you get into as a mindset is both ferocious and unnerving. The look on the face is another weapon in the assault on the world.

It is wise advice! Managing the message is exactly what one would want to have in their own power. Must practice this!

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All I can remember from meeting you was smiling a lot. You put me in a very good mood

It was fun! And, you're an excellent tour guide.

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but Devin though. Hmmm. Perhaps I could sense another lion in the room. I was somewhat deflecting his "who is this guy?" Questions. I don't like talking about work as if it defines anything in people. Perhaps that showed on my face.

Unfortunately, that is how he defines himself, so it's the type of conversation he would be comfortable having. You handled it very graciously.

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You can see it was a very entertaining evening for me.

I'm glad!

verbALs

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2016, 10:05:51 PM »
No idea why I'm awake so that's a great post to catch. And Antares. Hello mate!

That would have been the passage. Trying herself in front of her court! I wonder about the alternative "You fool". It's the completion of the thought that makes the book so special. Bronte isn't struggling to make concise descriptions. She honours the weight of the thought every time. Finds a metaphor and explores it completely. Some books are unfilmable. True you can film the story but without a voiceover you aren't filming Jane Eyre at all. I know you don't feel like that.

Yes maybe I am just a construction of phrases from 21 books of McGee. He becomes more contemplative as the books continue. I couldn't deny any of those quotes.

I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2016, 11:25:21 PM »

Sandy

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2016, 04:18:15 PM »
You do know him then?




No idea why I'm awake so that's a great post to catch.

4 a.m.?

"You are either very late or very early. What's your view of it?   Name that movie! (Hint: It's in my top 10. :) )


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That would have been the passage. Trying herself in front of her court! I wonder about the alternative "You fool". It's the completion of the thought that makes the book so special. Bronte isn't struggling to make concise descriptions. She honours the weight of the thought every time. Finds a metaphor and explores it completely. Some books are unfilmable. True you can film the story but without a voiceover you aren't filming Jane Eyre at all. I know you don't feel like that.

"She honours the weight of the thought every time." :) I keep re-reading this sentence. Brontė must love the character she has created, to want to know her that well.

I don't know if I disagree with you, for internal thoughts are nigh unto impossible to film well. But, I'm lucky in that I carried the book with me and each of the renditions of the film I've viewed, into the latest version. I believe it was you who talked of how each iteration, builds on the last, until there's a expansive composition inside. It's kind of like a creation of my own now, with my own experiences and views added into the mix.

The 2011 version happens to be the one that most aligns with what I want a visual story of Jane Eyre to look and feel like. The one I've compiled in my head and heart is my favorite though. :)

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Yes maybe I am just a construction of phrases from 21 books of McGee. He becomes more contemplative as the books continue. I couldn't deny any of those quotes.

:)

How wonderful that we allow books, music, movies... which speaks to us, shape us in certain ways. Evolution through art.

verbALs

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2016, 06:23:20 AM »
True, generous feeling is made small account of by some, but here were two natures rendered, the one intolerably acrid, the other despicably savourless for the want of it. Feeling without judgment is a washy draught ended; but judgment untempered by feeling is too bitter and husky a morsel for human deglutition

Deglutition- means the process of swallowing. I had to look that up...Victorian medical terms ftw

Now doesn't this relate to how judgement is applied to something like a movie, in a review?

I can say that I found the almost celebratory wallowing in the consequences of poor character on the horrible family Jane left behind unscathed, a little pointless at first, until a bit of plot kicks in. You can sometimes feel that the way poor judgment reflects on people, will catch up on them one day. You can challenge it, as a way of pointing it out to them. You know pull on their reigns to help change their course, or just sit there watching. Perhaps the ultimate Jane would have realised where all this was going for the Reeds and not selfishly stood aside. ;D Yes I know how harsh that is. Asking Jane to fight the oppressive nature of these people, to save them from themselves! Preposterous! Except Sandy, you would. You wouldn't stand there watching people go up in flames if you could help would you? And Jane is capable of helping. She returns with a desire to be generous to these people. She expresses it well. She is rebuffed but so what? Who cares about bad attitudes. They don't hurt you, and they haven't hurt her, just made her stronger. Having posited this scenario Brontė somewhat fumbles the ball there. I am being incredibly harsh, and asking for absolute selflessness. Ignore insults? Why? You would need encouragement from the object of that insulting behaviour, wouldn't you? Some hope of redemption....because the horse drinks for itself, whether you brought the horse to water or not. If it wants to die of thirst it will. Will. Will isn't a good thing unless the intention is good. As Brontė puts it ; "generous feeling" "feeling without judgement".

What I worry about, as one gets older, is that feeling gets abraded away. Sensitivity is mocked and derided, and it embarrasses people into a submissive coldness. When the positive benefits of feeling are required there's not enough feeling left to summon up a good response to emotion. One can't handle it, so one ignores it. In Jane Eyre terms you leave yourself ill-equipped to make a sound judgment. Life abrades away one's judgment. No fool like an old fool.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 06:38:00 AM by verbALs »
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Sandy

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Re: Jane Eyre "You almost unearthly thing!"
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2016, 06:41:27 PM »
I had to teach a class this weekend, so got a little behind, but am caught up now!

True, generous feeling is made small account of by some, but here were two natures rendered, the one intolerably acrid, the other despicably savourless for the want of it. Feeling without judgment is a washy draught ended; but judgment untempered by feeling is too bitter and husky a morsel for human deglutition

Deglutition- means the process of swallowing. I had to look that up...Victorian medical terms ftw

Now doesn't this relate to how judgement is applied to something like a movie, in a review?

ġēse   - means yes...Old English term ftw. :)

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I can say that I found the almost celebratory wallowing in the consequences of poor character on the horrible family Jane left behind unscathed, a little pointless at first, until a bit of plot kicks in. You can sometimes feel that the way poor judgment reflects on people, will catch up on them one day. You can challenge it, as a way of pointing it out to them. You know pull on their reigns to help change their course, or just sit there watching. Perhaps the ultimate Jane would have realised where all this was going for the Reeds and not selfishly stood aside. ;D

:)) What, with her two shillings in her purse? As a student at Lowood? Did you want her to march in there and knock some sense into all of them? Do you think, just because she can charm Mr. Rochester, John would have been persuaded to be a little more thrifty? :)

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Yes I know how harsh that is. Asking Jane to fight the oppressive nature of these people, to save them from themselves! Preposterous! Except Sandy, you would. You wouldn't stand there watching people go up in flames if you could help would you?

Oh, wouldn't I?! :))

Seriously though, I don't believe she was in any position to help. The operative word is cast-off. She was dead to them and wouldn't intrude into their world unless summoned, and then of course she came and wouldn't be deterred, insisting on seeing Mrs. Reed and staying with the family until she was no longer needed.

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And Jane is capable of helping. She returns with a desire to be generous to these people. She expresses it well. She is rebuffed but so what? Who cares about bad attitudes. They don't hurt you, and they haven't hurt her, just made her stronger. Having posited this scenario Brontė somewhat fumbles the ball there. I am being incredibly harsh, and asking for absolute selflessness. Ignore insults? Why? You would need encouragement from the object of that insulting behaviour, wouldn't you? Some hope of redemption....because the horse drinks for itself, whether you brought the horse to water or not. If it wants to die of thirst it will. Will. Will isn't a good thing unless the intention is good. As Brontė puts it ; "generous feeling" "feeling without judgement".

Help me understand. Isn't Jane being completely selfless? "Love me, then, or hate me, as you will," I said at last, "you have my full and free forgiveness: ask now for God's, and be at peace."

Do you think Jane would be more selfless, calling people on their insults? Expecting them to apologize? To what end? I believe she has the wherewithal to know that the best thing she can do with these people is to be consistently kind and generous and show something better, by way of example. You're right a horse will drink only if it is ready to do so.

What am I missing? :)

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What I worry about, as one gets older, is that feeling gets abraded away. Sensitivity is mocked and derided, and it embarrasses people into a submissive coldness. When the positive benefits of feeling are required there's not enough feeling left to summon up a good response to emotion. One can't handle it, so one ignores it. In Jane Eyre terms you leave yourself ill-equipped to make a sound judgment. Life abrades away one's judgment. No fool like an old fool.

Jane will bypass this. She is impervious to their slights and rejection, for she has gone on to much, much bigger and better things.

A sneer, however, whether covert or open, had now no longer that power over me it once possessed: as I sat between my cousins, I was surprised to find how easy I felt under the total neglect of the one and the semi-sarcastic attentions of the other--Eliza did not mortify, nor Georgiana ruffle me. The fact was, I had other things to think about; within the last few months feelings had been stirred in me so much more potent than any they could raise--pains and pleasures so much more acute and exquisite had been excited than any it was in their power to inflict or bestow--that their airs gave me no concern either for good or bad.

She has expanded her heart and mind, not just because of Rochester, and will not allow others' smallness to diminish her. Fight the good (Sensitivity) fight!


What did you think of the gypsy trick. Cruel? Ends justify the means? His description of her features is one of my favorite (of many) moments. :)