Author Topic: Captain America: Civil War  (Read 6889 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Captain America: Civil War
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2016, 04:04:30 AM »
A couple of things came to mind. I wanted to get someone's opinion on this.

It is never made clear how Steve knows about the murder of Tony's parents. Is it reasonable to assume someone at SHIELD might have told him before it crumbled or is that a plothole ?

Why should Tony's father have superhero formulae in his car ? Doesn't that contradict what we have been told about attempts to recreate the Captain America experiment ?

Does anyone have a good estimation of Stark Sr.'s birth day ?
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Paul Phoenix

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Re: Captain America: Civil War
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2016, 12:14:43 PM »
It is never made clear how Steve knows about the murder of Tony's parents. Is it reasonable to assume someone at SHIELD might have told him before it crumbled or is that a plothole ?

The Winter Soldier. Arnim Zola (AKA the talking computer) revealed Howard Stark's death to Cap in a newspaper clipping. He never told him it was Bucky who killed him, however, merely indicating it was HYDRA.
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wolf

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Re: Captain America: Civil War
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2016, 08:05:13 PM »
Some interesting political commentary:



http://www.salon.com/2016/05/06/captain_americas_a_douchey_libertarian_now_why_did_marvel_have_to_ruin_steve_rogers/

....Steve is now a guy who believe it’s cool to belong to a secretive paramilitary that rejects oversight and accountability to the public. Because while we all know and love them as the Avengers, hero squad, the brutal truth, which the movie does admit, is that is exactly what they are: A mercenary group who has resisted even the most basic oversight from democratic governments, oversight that would allow the people that the Avengers are supposed to be protecting some say in what this militaristic police force is allowed to do...

.... The Sokovia Accords plot could have been lifted right out of the movie and it wouldn’t have changed the plot much, if at all. On the contrary, it would have simplified the plot a little, making it a story about Steve protecting a wrongly accused man from facing execution without trial (which is very much in line with the liberalism of the character). Instead, we have this distracting plot where Steve suddenly turns from a level-headed liberal to a Ayn Randian libertarian douchebag who throws tantrums because he has to do grown-up stuff like share power instead of make unilateral decisions for other people....


Reason Magazine response to Salon:

http://reason.com/archives/2016/05/10/captain-american-exceptionalism


...If there's a lesson here for a democracy, it's that you can't give Barack Obama unlimited surveillance and assassination power without giving the next Republican that power, too, and that next Republican might be Donald Trump.

But Marcotte characterizes this as Cap being a good liberal and being concerned with privacy and oversight by democratic institutions, as if those institutions are not just as much in question. But Cap's disagreement with Fury goes well beyond that.

"This isn't freedom," Cap tells Fury. "This is fear."

Sure, plenty of liberals are concerned about overreaching surveillance and disdain stoking fear of terrorism for political gain, but then there's Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the liberal California Democrat who never saw a surveillance program that went too far until she found out the CIA was spying on her.

If you want to talk about the politics of Marvel's superhero movies, you need to keep in mind the actual political context in which they're made—not some fairytale version in which liberal Democrats—and democratic institutions and oversight panels—have an unblemished record on civil liberties. This is not The West Wing.

Beides, if there has been a Randian among the Avengers, it has, up until Civil War, been Iron Man. Tony Stark's testimony before a Senate committee in Iron Man 2 and his insistence on keeping control of the armor technology he created could have come out of the mouth of one of Ayn Rand's heroes—if any of Rand's heroes were capable of humor or sarcasm, which they're not. And Stark at that point wasn't out to make "unilateral decisions for other people"; he wanted mostly to make decisions about and for himself.

In any case, seeing Steve Rogers in Civil War as a libertarian is only one possible reading. It's just as easy—easier perhaps—to view the conflict between Rogers and Stark as pitting conservative unilateralism vs. conservative multilateralism.

The main charge leveled at the Avengers in Civil War is they act unilaterally, without regard to national sovereignty, and too often leaving behind collateral damage. That could easily be read as a libertarian critique of neoconservative foreign policy, especially when we learn all the events of Civil War qualify as blowback from the Avengers' actions in Avengers: Age of Ultron.

Against this, a chastised Stark, comes down in favor of multilateralism, even if that means going through a decidedly less-than-ideal mechanism such as the United Nations, which Stark clearly hints can be gamed, anyway.

The ideological divide in Civil War may not be all that large. It may stretch just from neoconservative unilateralism to realist-conservative multilateralism.

With that small an ideological chasm between our heroes, it's no wonder the main conflicts of Captain America: Civil War come down not to political differences but personal ones, with Cap's old pal Bucky Barnes (aka the Winter Soldier) at the center of it all.

Ultimately, the personal is not the political.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Captain America: Civil War
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2016, 08:59:42 PM »
It is never made clear how Steve knows about the murder of Tony's parents. Is it reasonable to assume someone at SHIELD might have told him before it crumbled or is that a plothole ?

The Winter Soldier. Arnim Zola (AKA the talking computer) revealed Howard Stark's death to Cap in a newspaper clipping. He never told him it was Bucky who killed him, however, merely indicating it was HYDRA.


Thanks.

MCU references are starting to go deep...
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