Author Topic: The Lobster  (Read 5582 times)

verbALs

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Re: Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2016, 01:47:47 PM »
So you don't find the ending proves, in this world, there isn't any room for love; because it leads to further hurt and damage. This is what I mean by seeing this world through normal eyes. Love doesn't survive as much as it destroys. What's the next difference that will have this pair self mutulating to nullify any difference between them? It's not romantic that ending. "I would do anything for love but...." One can't impose any expectations on this created world, I don't think. It's an exercise in showing the limits of compromise or the limits of relationships? What do you think? Why can't people be different in this world? Because of a fear of rejection over the slightest problem. Is it horrible or is it funny?
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

Sandy

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Re: The Lobster
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2016, 03:18:14 PM »
So you don't find the ending proves, in this world, there isn't any room for love; because it leads to further hurt and damage. This is what I mean by seeing this world through normal eyes. Love doesn't survive as much as it destroys. What's the next difference that will have this pair self mutulating to nullify any difference between them?

Yes, they are being destroyed, but it's the rules placed on their lives that are destroying them. I don't blame the love for their destruction. It just is. It really is harder to pretend you don't have feelings, when you do. Pretending like that is to live a shadow of a life. Have you seen the play Aida? Another world of impossible love, but love they must and they get destroyed because of it.


Every moment of my life from now until I die
I will think or dream of you and fail to understand
How a perfect love can be confounded out of hand

Is it written in the stars
Are we paying for some crime
Is that all that we are good for
Just a stretch of mortal time

Or some god's experiment
In which we have no say
In which we're given paradise
But only for a day

Nothing can be altered, there is nothing to decide
No escape, no change of heart, no any place to hide

Oh, you are all I'll ever want, but this I am denied
Sometimes in my darkest thoughts, I wish I'd never learned
What it is to be in love and have that love returned


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It's not romantic that ending. "I would do anything for love but...." One can't impose any expectations on this created world, I don't think.

The only expectations I have on this world is destruction for having real thought and feelings.

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It's an exercise in showing the limits of compromise or the limits of relationships? What do you think? Why can't people be different in this world? Because of a fear of rejection over the slightest problem.

This is a great avenue to explore. In their world they can't be different, because they will be severely physically punished for it. In our world, it's up to the individual, isn't it? And as couples? Shouldn't a couple decide what is important for them and how to handle differences? Personally, it's the combination of connection and the coming at it from different perspectives that would make for a dynamic relationship. theoretically speaking. :)

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Is it horrible or is it funny?

yes. both. and sometimes at the same time. that makes me unsettled.
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

verbALs

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Re: The Lobster
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2016, 12:43:33 AM »
Really my point is that normal expectations (not the right word but close ) of love won't exist in this world. Hence thinking that trying to contextualise doesnt work here. You say that their love is real but I'm saying that the concept of "love" can't exist here. So then one can use this anti love universe to contrast with love in our world. You posted the directors words and I object to the director getting that chance (that old discussion) but he is confirming that he want to shove you out of our world. Let him.
Love in our world doesn't involve forcing or expecting another person to conform strictly to anyone else. So start there. That's a complete difference from our worlds concept of love. Not loving someone because they do or don't like a film or song? Doesn't sound like love does it? Or a good place to start looking for it either.  It isn't a lesson or example to learn from. It's completely antithetical. They might be displaying lust but when it comes to love they slot back into the way "love"'works in this world.

Now once you start thinking that way the whole purpose of animalising people starts to make more sense. You have to force people together or no babies. You have to threaten them into conforming to a relationship pattern where babies can be borne and nurtured. Again is that horrible or funny?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:46:16 AM by verbALs »
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

Sandy

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Re: The Lobster
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2016, 07:55:31 AM »
Really my point is that normal expectations (not the right word but close ) of love won't exist in this world. Hence thinking that trying to contextualise doesnt work here. You say that their love is real but I'm saying that the concept of "love" can't exist here. So then one can use this anti love universe to contrast with love in our world. You posted the directors words and I object to the director getting that chance (that old discussion) but he is confirming that he want to shove you out of our world. Let him.

Interesting that you don't want the creator of the art to be part of a discussion. Why the resistance? You say love can't exist in that world and I say it does, inspite of everything in that world conspiring against it. Though, the world will destroy the people who do, if they don't conform.

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Love in our world doesn't involve forcing or expecting another person to conform strictly to anyone else.

It doesn't? You are very fortunate to not have been in this kind of relationship. I can attest that this kind of "love" is alive and well in this world.

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So start there.
 That's a complete difference from our worlds concept of love. Not loving someone because they do or don't like a film or song? Doesn't sound like love does it? Or a good place to start looking for it either.  It isn't a lesson or example to learn from. It's completely antithetical. They might be displaying lust but when it comes to love they slot back into the way "love"'works in this world.

I'm a little fuzzy on who "they" are and "this world" is. I'll just add here that counterfeit love is recognizable whether in that world or this one.

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Now once you start thinking that way the whole purpose of animalising people starts to make more sense. You have to force people together or no babies. You have to threaten them into conforming to a relationship pattern where babies can be borne and nurtured. Again is that horrible or funny?

Society's structure in our world reflect this too. Rewarding family units and rewarding maintaining them. Isn't religion in a way, a type of reward and punish mentality?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:31:34 AM by Sandy »
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."

verbALs

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Re: The Lobster
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2016, 10:17:25 AM »
So in this world "relationship" is a word missing the connotation of "love" in it. He makes a film where the two have been surgical separated. If you quarantine this world from our own I think it's a stronger premise as a whole. Hence feeling the ending represents a situation that can only occur in this world. So then it becomes a clearer contrast as a whole to what "loving relationship" means here in our world. I know what you mean about how it reminds of parts of our own relationships but I hope you can see why I think that the movie as a whole as antithetical to our emotional world and I wouldn't want to get dragged into comparisons of particular events.

It isnt a film of answers but lots of questions. So the director answering questions outside his own film seems contrary to his own piece of art. I like the "find your own answers to these questions" approach. Certainly it doesn't need to explain how he is ejecting us from any normal view of relationships with this film. Does it? Alienating would be the first adjective I'd put in the list of adjectives to describe it on IMDb. 
I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore. - Banksy

Sandy

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Re: The Lobster
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2016, 10:59:34 AM »
It's funny, the more I talk about this film with you, the more connections and comparisons I'm observing. I feel alienated often and much of this world is nonsensical and full of "rules".

We are having different experiences with The Lobster and that's okay. Thanks for the discussion.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:55:15 PM by Sandy »
"Don't be shy. You learn to fly and see the sun when day is done. If only you see."