Author Topic: Rogue One  (Read 1281 times)

1SO

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2016, 08:34:56 AM »
I guess I get some of the comments from earlier today about the lack of rewatchability. I don't know that you'd sign up to watch all the heroes die over and over again.
That's not it. It's the sluggish pacing of the first 90 minutes. It the way scenes are drawn out when the conclusion is inevitable. We never have reason to believe Diego Luna is going to kill Mikkelsen so the entire rainy platform sequence is dull, including the stuff that happens once he decides not to fire the gun. There's a major lack of popcorn escapism before those X-Wings pull out of hyperspace. The last 20 minutes is the best part.

I do love how this film solves the silliness of the Death Star having that one weak spot.

philip918

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2016, 12:43:25 PM »
I do love how this film solves the silliness of the Death Star having that one weak spot.

I've never understood why this is widely considered so silly. I always bought that intelligent people who gained access to the Death Star plans find a critical weakness and exploit it. Thematically it also worked that a hubristic empire with an enormous battle station underestimates an attack from a very small force.
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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2016, 12:49:30 PM »
I guess I get some of the comments from earlier today about the lack of rewatchability. I don't know that you'd sign up to watch all the heroes die over and over again.
That's not it. It's the sluggish pacing of the first 90 minutes. It the way scenes are drawn out when the conclusion is inevitable. We never have reason to believe Diego Luna is going to kill Mikkelsen so the entire rainy platform sequence is dull, including the stuff that happens once he decides not to fire the gun. There's a major lack of popcorn escapism before those X-Wings pull out of hyperspace. The last 20 minutes is the best part.

I do love how this film solves the silliness of the Death Star having that one weak spot.

I can get behind that a little as well. As I said, I'd probably skip up to the Jedha City scene upon a rewatch because the build-up didn't do much for me. I didn't mind that assassination scene, especially the second half when the X-Wings show up. It does get better as it goes along. The Mads character really worked for me, but mostly because he's an amazing actor. This could have used just a scene of home-y bliss before shit goes south in the opening. Make that relationship more powerful, which would fix a lot of the opening half-hour where that relationship is the only thing keeping me interested.
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Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2016, 07:31:38 PM »
Any comments regarding Michael Giacchino's contribution? I'm excited to hear someone else score a SW film.
I thought it was rather weak. It felt like he wanted it to be John Williams style, but it all felt off. Too bombastic at the wrong moments. He did weave the old themes in nicely, though.

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 10:38:20 PM »
I thought this was leaps and bounds better than THE FORCE AWAKENS. My only major gripes are that disastrous prologue sequence (which gives us a huge plot hole for the Empire - why do they think he won't screw them over after killing his wife, but I digress) and CG Grand Moff Tarkin who looked like a model from ANOMALISA.

I was never involved much with Rey or Finn, but I was very involved with Jyn, wished there was more about her upbringing before her parents pulled away from the Empire (if they had to have a prologue sequence, an extension of that flashback would've been better). The origins of the ensemble were barely touched upon through expository dialogue, it felt authentically doled out in pieces across the acts.

There's more to say about its many virtues (far less references to previous films than the last one and - when they're done - they're mostly pretty intelligent or in the background).

smirnoff

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 12:44:35 AM »
I do love how this film solves the silliness of the Death Star having that one weak spot.

I've never understood why this is widely considered so silly. I always bought that intelligent people who gained access to the Death Star plans find a critical weakness and exploit it. Thematically it also worked that a hubristic empire with an enormous battle station underestimates an attack from a very small force.

Plus it's a shot that very few people could potentially pull of by all accounts. All the pilots look around doubtfully when it's announced during that briefing. Even Wedge Antilles, who is the only other member of Red Squadron to survive the subsequent Battle of Yavin, and no slouch of a pilot himself, says incredulously "That's impossible! Even for a computer."

After it's done Han reiterates what a difficult shot it was. "Great shot kid, that was one in a million".

Why should the empire worry about it. They have a zillion tie fighters and turrets. And no reason to suspect that there is a weakness, or that anyone knows about it if there is.

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Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2016, 01:02:12 AM »
Rogue One
* * * - Okay

There will be much more to say once we've all seen it. For right now I just want to say re-watchibility is very low, which is out of step for a Star Wars movie. Even the prequels have more moments I would look forward to seeing again. The story takes over 90 minutes to realize it's Star Wars.

What does this mean to you?

Because I didn't feel that THE FORCE AWAKENS was "STAR WARS", but I definitely felt that ROGUE ONE was "STAR WARS" - from start to finish.
Yeah, I've been expecting this response, my comment was so vague. The world is definitely deeply dipped into Star Wars. This is The Hobbit, barely resembling LOTR. It has all the detail in the characters and production design. What I mean to say is, there is a serious lack of fun. It's not a dour movie like Nolan or Snyder, there are jokes and they're good ones, but there's none of the "yee haw" swashbuckling excitement that is the bedrock of the series until the finale. The tone of the adventure is more dramatic than any of the other Star Wars films (and I'm not referring to the end, but the first 90 minutes.) That's a way to tell it and something that will set the stand-alones apart from the main trilogies, but I'm not going to want to watch it again.


Ummm...



I feel you may have walked yourself into that one.  ;D

But no, there's always this lurking darkness to all of the STAR WARS films, it's often pretty muted, but that said darkness is generally the reason why EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is lauded as the best (I still prefer A NEW HOPE, but only slightly; they're both masterpieces) of the franchise. Here they externalize it A LOT but so? These are, after all, WAR films - I'd wager that its the fantastical elements of the wizardry that keeps it from being as "swashbuckling" as the previous seven - the film shows a reality that is generally swept aside in exchange for more spectacle.

Perhaps this is why - and excuse me for using this term extremely liberally - you dislike Italian Neorealism?  ;D All of the characters here live on the margins of the galaxy, they are almost instantly forgotten after they succeed in their mission. I was always ready for all of them to die.

Also, THE HOBBIT was never meant to resemble LORD OF THE RINGS, it's attempts to do so were the problem - it's more lighthearted in tone and nature as a novel than the film. That's why it should've only been two - TOPS - films.

I feel like this resembled the original trilogy far more accurately than THE FORCE AWAKENS did (which it obviously was trying to do) but I also feel it was different enough to justify its own trilogy (despite it being a standalone, which I respect). I told my friend that I was seeing it with that STAR WARS, to me, wasn't ever so much about the characters - the OT were more or less stock archetypes - but the plot and this one was aces. This is why I had such a problem with THE FORCE AWAKENS - it cared way too much about the new characters (who were ultimately still lacking in major development in order to provide necessary fan service for the older characters) and not nearly enough about the plot that drove them. I think with stories one often drives one more than the other, here all of the characters are driven by the plot - they ultimately have no choice. That lack of choice is what made A NEW HOPE so fascinating to me. At one point, Rey has a choice to go back to Jakku and makes it (despite the plot throwing its necessary/predictable curveball to have her stay). Luke has none because the Empire is such an oppressive force. Neither does Jyn. Nor does Anakin in ATTACK OF THE CLONES once his mother dies (another reason PHANTOM MENACE fails is because Anakin isn't an active protagonist, but I digress).

I hope all this makes sense!

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2016, 05:29:00 AM »
Some points to debate.


1. I didn't care much for the characters. Loved the cast, but wasn't involved with their journey like with The Force Awakens cast.
It's too early in Daisy Ridley's career to say Felicity Jones is no Daisy Ridley, but one of JJ's great strengths is setting up likable characters and getting us excited about actors we've seen little of before if at all (Lost, Star Trek, Force Awakens). Take Diego Luna. We see him commit some morally dubious acts, but he's such a nice puppy dog most of the time I never matched it with a person who would do bad things because of the greater good. It was more that the film wanted to set up the possibility that he was going to betray them all at some point.

2. The film doesn't reach the prequel pit of endless boring conversations, but not enough happens for much of the film. Many of the dramatic climaxes, especially the entire rain platform sequence, are drawn out too far and lack any emotional punch. There's just no connection between Mads Mikkelsen and Felicity Jones except for typical father/daughter dramatics. I felt nothing for these two characters because I wasn't involved in their personal stories. It isn't until the rebel X-Wings appear above the shield that this felt like a Star Wars movie. Until then, it was a SW fan film, set in the world but using tired characters and story points.

3. I expect a lot of negative comments aimed at Peter Cushing, but my glass is half full. I'm surprised how far the technology is coming along. I expected him to look more like Polar Express (and he approaches it in his 2nd scene), but the skin texture and small gestures are fantastic. I say passible enough where if I didn't know it was impossible I might've not noticed it all the first time.

4. Darth Vader is an interesting inclusion. Some of the best imagery of the film. His final scene was fan service, but it was so badass I liked it a lot.

1. Those were all non-characters. I only remember Jyn's name and she is a completely empty basket. Whatever arcs there were I did not care about or felt undeserved. The deaths had no impact because everyone was such a disposable stereotype.

2. The plot is a lot of jumping around in space to get to the next important person they have to meet. The planets are as devoid of personality as the characters and mountains of time are lost in contrived going arounds that could have been better spent building the characters and creating more SW-feeling action.

3. I loved him and Leia for the proficiency of the technical achievement. I thought they both looked amazing.

4. The first time we see Vader is great too but the carnage is the best scene in the movie. Am I the only one who thought James Earl Jones' voice had changed enough not to recognise it ? I will be listening for that when I rewatch it.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2016, 05:47:05 AM »
I feel like this resembled the original trilogy far more accurately than THE FORCE AWAKENS did (which it obviously was trying to do) but I also feel it was different enough to justify its own trilogy (despite it being a standalone, which I respect). I told my friend that I was seeing it with that STAR WARS, to me, wasn't ever so much about the characters - the OT were more or less stock archetypes - but the plot and this one was aces. This is why I had such a problem with THE FORCE AWAKENS - it cared way too much about the new characters (who were ultimately still lacking in major development in order to provide necessary fan service for the older characters) and not nearly enough about the plot that drove them. I think with stories one often drives one more than the other, here all of the characters are driven by the plot - they ultimately have no choice. That lack of choice is what made A NEW HOPE so fascinating to me. At one point, Rey has a choice to go back to Jakku and makes it (despite the plot throwing its necessary/predictable curveball to have her stay). Luke has none because the Empire is such an oppressive force. Neither does Jyn. Nor does Anakin in ATTACK OF THE CLONES once his mother dies (another reason PHANTOM MENACE fails is because Anakin isn't an active protagonist, but I digress).

I don't understand how a movie can care too much about its characters, especially when you're going to be following them for three movies. I am also more interested in characters who make choices than characters who are forced to do things. It's choices that make a character a hero, not being at the wrong place in the wrong time (or having the wrong family name in some cases).

Your comparisons are also a bit befuddling because the plot of TfA is ANH almost beat for beat, just with more fan service.
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MattDrufke

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2016, 10:27:51 AM »
My only problem with Vader, and perhaps the only moment that took me out of this film, was when he said something like, "Be careful not to... choke... on your ambition."

Really? We're using clever wordplay now?

The only way I would've been taken out of the film more is if he then turned to the camera and said, "I guess you can say I'm quite the Pith Lord."
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