Author Topic: Rogue One  (Read 1484 times)

Teproc

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2016, 03:50:55 PM »
Some points to debate.


1. I didn't care much for the characters. Loved the cast, but wasn't involved with their journey like with The Force Awakens cast.
It's too early in Daisy Ridley's career to say Felicity Jones is no Daisy Ridley, but one of JJ's great strengths is setting up likable characters and getting us excited about actors we've seen little of before if at all (Lost, Star Trek, Force Awakens). Take Diego Luna. We see him commit some morally dubious acts, but he's such a nice puppy dog most of the time I never matched it with a person who would do bad things because of the greater good. It was more that the film wanted to set up the possibility that he was going to betray them all at some point.

100% agree, and I don't think it's too early to say Felicity Jones is no Daisy Ridley. She's a fine actress but has none of the charisma.

I think Tarkin ends up working pretty well (though it opens a whole ethical can of worms), but Leia is awful and we realy didn't need to see her face if we need to see her at all.

The film as a whole is... ok. It works thematically, which is more than I can say for most blockbusters, but it has big problems of pacing. I don't like the winking references either : if you're going to be derivative, I'd rather take the TFA approach of making it the whole point of the film, rather than random shots of sentries that are only there to say "hey, remember that shot ?".
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 04:00:19 PM by Teproc »

1SO

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2016, 08:21:56 PM »
The planets are as devoid of personality as the characters and mountains of time are lost in contrived going arounds that could have been better spent building the characters and creating more SW-feeling action.
I will say the look of the first planet really put me into the world nicely. I remember it being this black dirt with lush, tall green grass. Like no place on Earth I've ever seen.

Because they're building a universe of films, I'm left to wonder if Forest Whitaker is a character they're planning to explore in another film. (And that's bad for this one.) I want to know about what happened after he yelled down to Jyn. I want to know if his breathing apparatus is meant to mimic Vader's. I wish he was more fleshed out here instead of being left thinking we're going to learn more in another film years from now.


3. I loved him and Leia for the proficiency of the technical achievement. I thought they both looked amazing.
Seems we're alone on this one so far. The tech is not 100% there, but I believe that uncanny valley just got a lot smaller.


4. The first time we see Vader is great too but the carnage is the best scene in the movie. Am I the only one who thought James Earl Jones' voice had changed enough not to recognise it ? I will be listening for that when I rewatch it.
I noticed the dialogue wasn't as deep as usual, but I thought maybe they're trying to say this is Vader still learning to modulate his voice.

I also hated the wordplay, but I couldn't remember if he spoke a similar threat in the original trilogy. Maybe the line was right but the delivery was too drawn out. If he had had just said it like he didn't realize he was being punny it might've sounded better.

Junior

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2016, 08:25:08 PM »
The planets are as devoid of personality as the characters and mountains of time are lost in contrived going arounds that could have been better spent building the characters and creating more SW-feeling action.
I will say the look of the first planet really put me into the world nicely. I remember it being this black dirt with lush, tall green grass. Like no place on Earth I've ever seen.

Because they're building a universe of films, I'm left to wonder if Forest Whitaker is a character they're planning to explore in another film. (And that's bad for this one.) I want to know about what happened after he yelled down to Jyn. I want to know if his breathing apparatus is meant to mimic Vader's. I wish he was more fleshed out here instead of being left thinking we're going to learn more in another film years from now.

He's actually a legacy character from one of the animated tv shows. I doubt he'll be around again, so you might have to watch them if you're really interested in his story (which does sound pretty cool).
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1SO

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2016, 10:32:03 PM »
I thought K-2SO (Your son, 1SO?)
Even with this comment, the connection sailed right past me until my wife was looking at a shirt with the robot today. I thought you were referring to my overly-intellectual (robotic) way of watching films or my occasionally too direct manner. Now I wonder if future Filmspotters will think my name derives from this film or if someone who worked on Rogue One is/was a member having a laugh.

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2016, 11:00:32 PM »
Haha, if anyone is the robot here, it's me.

Totoro

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2016, 01:13:55 AM »

I don't understand how a movie can care too much about its characters, especially when you're going to be following them for three movies.

We're talking about one movie, not one third of one.


I am also more interested in characters who make choices than characters who are forced to do things. It's choices that make a character a hero, not being at the wrong place in the wrong time (or having the wrong family name in some cases).


It's choices under pressure that make characters compelling. Why do I care about Rey if she's so quick to run away from the adventure? She's gone this far then turns and goes? She obviously cares a lot about nonexistent parents that aren't ever coming back, but the film is so shrouded in mystery that we are given nothing to know why we should also care. I never believed for a second about how or why she cared for her family, the film is holding that in for what I expect is a plot twist in 8 that I don't care for anymore. There's so little pressure in that scene that it feels like a rote "Hero is reluctant to call of adventure" but it's too late. You say THE FORCE AWAKENS is a clone of A NEW HOPE but the "Reluctant to call of adventure" beat happens in the first 30 minutes not roughly halfway into the film. Luke makes the decision because of immense pressure - he has lost his entire family, family - by the way - that we were given time to see, understand, and empathize with. There's nothing waiting for Rey back home, except a possibility of the warmth of a family we never see.

I don't watch STAR WARS for subversive character studies in adventure films, I watch STAR WARS for thrilling plot-driven fantasy. If you want STAR WARS with extremely compelling characters, you should petition for Mike Leigh to make the next spinoff. That said, even by traditional fantasy genre terms, Rey is a weakly motivated character, which is odd since, yeah, she's supposed to be the de-facto protagonist of the film.

Jyn, by comparison, is at first, forced into this adventure, but when she sees the hologram that her father leaves her, she becomes emboldened to live for a real meaning instead of just drifting across the galaxy. Cassian gives her the cliched but needed speech where he says that the mission isn't all about her. It may be a bit of a weakness of the film to not detail this moment more, but the idea is conveyed - Jyn has been only thinking of her own survival, she hasn't been thinking of the survival of the galaxy. She becomes a strongly motivated protagonist, she becomes an extremist, a true hero, a real rebel.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 01:15:54 AM by Totoro »

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2016, 07:45:27 AM »
The emotional weight of Rey's family is more real than Luke's. His surrogate parents are disposed off like last week's leftovers and he seems to have the ability to process grief instantly. The script doesn't give him an opportunity to mourn and Ridley is a much better actress than Hamill.

(By the way, is that Reedley or Ridley ?)
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Totoro

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2016, 04:09:14 PM »
The emotional weight of Rey's family is more real than Luke's. His surrogate parents are disposed off like last week's leftovers and he seems to have the ability to process grief instantly. The script doesn't give him an opportunity to mourn and Ridley is a much better actress than Hamill.

(By the way, is that Reedley or Ridley ?)

...

You need to watch A NEW HOPE again. This is simply not true. The entire arc is about him overcoming the fear of death. He literally destroys the Death Star at the end. People always ridicule the scene where Leia is comforting him after Ben dies (she's been through hell) but that scene is important because Leia, since she has been with the Rebellion longer, has a tougher mental fortitude than he has. His Aunt and Uncle are brutally slaughtered - there's a lot of pain here that, of course doesn't come out in overdramatic fashion, but it's there, underneath the surface, and comes out in that scene between him and Leia. His aunt and uncle's bodies, then the first person that tells him he could be more than he could possibly imagine gets killed in front of his eyes. It also shows how far the Empire will go to find the droids. That scene where he finds them is a mix of shock, anger, and horror. It's just subtle which is among its virtues.

I don't care for Rey's parents because I am given absolutely no reason to care for them. The only reason I should care for them is because Rey cares for them but she never communicates more details than "they told me they would come back for me" which I feel more pity towards than empathy. As revealed, she's been on the planet, alone, for 10+ years. Why doesn't she have resentment? I'm down for more pathos to Rey but they never provide that. They had a golden opportunity to introduce the Max Von Sydow character as a surrogate parent who gets murdered which gives her a reason to fight against the Empire but oddly just avoided this for some reason?

She gives a fantastic performance with scant material. A good performance can't alone solve fundamental character shallowness.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2016, 05:55:15 AM »
Mental fortitude is a big help when your friends die in front of you or when you get captured by space nazis. Leia witnessed a holocaust that included everyone she loved and was ready to provide emotional support a few hours later. It is a common unrealistic trait of action movies that their characters are able to shrug off horror and tragedy like corny insults in the playground.
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philip918

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Re: Rogue One
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2016, 10:17:22 AM »
Well said, Totoro. My thoughts exactly.
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