Author Topic: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy  (Read 4282 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2017, 12:09:59 PM »
I have never understood this theory of yours. Even if you don't think TDK is the best of the bunch, how are its low points and the trainwreck parts of TDKR enough to take a director from the top to the bottom ? It would be easier to understand if you were taking the entire filmography into account.
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1SO

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2017, 12:21:36 PM »
I don't get it either. That's why I'm doing this. Inception is just outside my Top 100, but TDKR was like watching Nolan set his script on fire as if he didn't need it anymore, and without a great script all the flaws rose right to the top.

I wanted to do this for the first two films to better understand why I think the first film is the best. I want to do it for the last two to better understand where and why I got off the Nolan train. And, I want to take a detailed look at TDK, which is often regarded as the peak of superhero entertainment to the point where it's risen to a place above criticism. Fans won't hear of such negative talk.

PeacefulAnarchy

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 12:22:20 PM »
Because Gotham doesn't exist, putting Bruce anywhere else is like using a chess piece for a game of Monopoly, you can still play but it clearly doesn't belong.
I wonder if this isn't intentional? The films are as much about the mythos of Batman and its incongruity with reality as any of their specific stories, so every time Bruce is taken out of Gotham it's establishing that contrast and his inseparability from Gotham. It also ties in with his final scene in TDKR which becomes a personal triumph as has finally become a real person

1SO

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2017, 08:34:17 PM »

Batman Begins - More Than Just a Man
"The world is too small for someone like Bruce Wayne to disappear,
no matter how deep he wishes to sink."


Liam Neeson as Ducard isn't just speaking in platitudes here. It's a terrific pitch, similar to the one in V For Vendetta where V says "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof." Similar, but different enough that it doesn't sound like a copy.

Again with the great sound design, the quiet dialogue scene cuts to the roar of a truck driving away. Time for some epic vistas and what the DVD calls a "suspenseful, meditative theme". I like those contrasting describers, meditative, but suspenseful, and the locations are breathtaking, which is hard to pull off in the modern world.
Rating: * * * - Very Good

1SO

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2017, 09:41:58 PM »

Batman Begins - What Do You Fear?
"Why do we fall, Bruce?
So we can learn to pick ourselves up."


I like Neeson's face, holding that pose during is initial training fight, the way the skin wrinkles just so around the corner of his eye. I wanted to gif this next image, another moment of great composition.


Bruce's dad descending into the well reminded me of the two shots in Skyfall where a major character approaches the screen from the deep background, gaining importance every inch of the way as he emerges from the shadows. I'm already noticing thematic connections to the third film. The well looks similar to Bruce's cell in Dark Knight Rises and his father drops in like an angel. I wonder how many more vertical visuals I'll catch this time.

I can't express how much I appreciate that Michael Caine was cast as Alfred. Casting him created a need to not just use Alfred as wry comic relief. I've always found Alfred to be an important part of the Batman universe, though rarely used as anything more than Bruce Wayne's conscience. Nolan gives Caine an isolated close-up, signaling that the challenge of making Alfred a fully-fleshed out character has been accepted. (It also plays well with the strings on the score here, full of both sadness and comfort.)

This Chapter doesn't have Greatness, but it sets up the background nicely. The one off note is Bruce's dad getting his son's opinion of the pearls he bought for Bruce's mom, Martha. (I can't not type the name. So stupid in BvS) Maybe it's because I was never a billionaire, but I don't understand why the son's opinion matters. If it's meant as a moment of bonding, it's rings false.
Rating: * * * - Good

Jared

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2017, 01:09:59 AM »
I'm pretty interested in seeing these movies get dissected myself. I haven't made a Top 100 in years, but I think last time I did, Batman Begins was on it....and I can't even say I really like the next two movies. Wish I could put my finger on why but hopefully following along here will help.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 04:44:32 AM »
This Chapter ends with a fight scene. I'll try not to say it too much, but Nolan is generally terrible with the choreography of the action with the camera. Here, we have a bunch of guys all dressed alike, all covered with mud. Sure, it's obvious that Bruce is outnumbered and wins easily, but there's no excitement.

How do you compare that with Batman's one hand to hand fight at the end of BvS? I thought Snyder did some terrific work there, of a kind one does not really find in Nolan's trilogy.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 04:46:42 AM »
I can't express how much I appreciate that Michael Caine was cast as Alfred. Casting him created a need to not just use Alfred as wry comic relief. I've always found Alfred to be an important part of the Batman universe, though rarely used as anything more than Bruce Wayne's conscience. Nolan gives Caine an isolated close-up, signaling that the challenge of making Alfred a fully-fleshed out character has been accepted. (It also plays well with the strings on the score here, full of both sadness and comfort.)

Do you have a non-movie relationship with Batman?
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1SO

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 08:28:27 AM »
How do you compare that with Batman's one hand to hand fight at the end of BvS? I thought Snyder did some terrific work there, of a kind one does not really find in Nolan's trilogy.
BvS is so rotten I have a hard time calling anything Snyder did 'terrific'. Comparing just those two moments I would give the win to Snyder, but the first fight is on the bottom half for Nolan in this trilogy, and there are a number of exceptions to Nolan's problem with action coming up... I think.


Do you have a non-movie relationship with Batman?
I'm old enough where the silly TV show from the 60s played in syndication when I was a kid. I've also read the occasional comic and watched Batman: The Animated Series. I'm not a Batman devotee, but it's been with me my entire life.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: One Chapter At A Time - The Dark Knight Trilogy
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 10:30:32 AM »
How do you compare that with Batman's one hand to hand fight at the end of BvS? I thought Snyder did some terrific work there, of a kind one does not really find in Nolan's trilogy.
BvS is so rotten I have a hard time calling anything Snyder did 'terrific'. Comparing just those two moments I would give the win to Snyder, but the first fight is on the bottom half for Nolan in this trilogy, and there are a number of exceptions to Nolan's problem with action coming up... I think.

I maintain that as hth combat goes, that Snyder scene is a top 3 in the Batman movie-verse. Nolan never gives him much contest in that regard, except for Bane, which is not that great of a scene.
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