Author Topic: Respond to the last movie you watched  (Read 684000 times)

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 28709
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #490 on: February 17, 2017, 12:12:05 AM »
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

I disagree almost entirely. You care a lot about the times of great upheaval, but those have not been a part of this series (perhaps they are part of the the 70s versions, and with the upcoming film's title, I think we might finally see the thing you desire so much). But this has been, over the course of the two films so far, a story of an ape and a human. It's an intimate story, and those don't often work in the large context you're looking for. Franco dies between the credits of the last movie and this one, he's unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but he's ultra-important for Caesar and his understanding of the relationship between apes and man, and the society he begins to develop in this movie comes from that interaction and the respect he has for humanity it engendered.

That relationship between a man and an ape gets redone here several times over. There are parallels between the two species all over the place. You cite a hotheaded human who breaks the peace, but isn't there a similarly hotheaded ape who sows that seed of distrust (and deservingly so, given his past mistreatment at human hands). This is a complex web of human-ape interactions and relationships (at least for an action movie franchise) and it would be lost if we were focused on the larger scale collapse you want to see.

Finally, yes, this is not a Planet of the Apes yet. We're still at the Dawn (there's a reason why the film ends as it does)! There is indeed a long way to go, and I suspect we won't be there yet by the end of the next movie, either. You decry the movie skipping over the exciting stuff and getting bogged down in boring dam-rebuilding. These people are indeed small and relatively meaningless, but they are also, as you point out, the catalyst for the ape's next lurch forward, socially speaking. Were it not for the events of the film, they'd likely be stuck in the rut you rightly identified.

I think many of your problems come from an over-attachment to the human characters. I don't think that they're unimportant, I just think the apes are of equal, if not slightly more importance. They barely rate a mention in your review, except to figure out the logistics of their population growth. Did you not care about the ape characters at all? Is this the Westworld problem, where people had a hard time caring about characters that were being controlled to some degree by a computer program, even if the story was about their rebellion against the programming? Are apes just not of interest to you? (I don't think this would be a deficiency in your character or anything, just a difference between us that would illuminate our very different responses)
Check out my blog of many topics

“I’m not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!”

smirnoff

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 26251
    • smirnoff's Top 100
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #491 on: February 17, 2017, 01:26:13 AM »
I think the film is overly attached to all the characters.

Imo it's not a story about these humans, or these apes, it's about human history and ape history. The characters don't really matter that much. It would be like a series called Planet of the Humans, and it's all about Julius Caesar. It's too narrow. He's an important figure and he influenced some things in the time he lived, but human history is more than just him.

I think of 2001 A Space Oddysey... in the whole history of human evolution it doesn't just stop at a random time to watch some apes, it stops at a very important and pivotal moment. A species defining moment. And in watching Dawn I never really understood "why now"? Why stop at this time, to watch this particular ape? What is so important about the events of this film?

There is a skirmish between the apes and humans, and the final lines of the film make it sound as though some threshold has been crossed, and they there is no turning back. But I didn't see why that should be the case. It was an isolated incident. There was as many positive interactions between the species as negative. An ape saved by medicine, an orangutan given a book, etc. Both species have a sense of law and order, and understand the costs of war. And it doesn't seem as though they are competing for space or resources. I just don't see what happened that was so important we had to stop at this moment in history to see it. Honestly it felt like an excuse to have an action movie, because this happened to be a moment in time that had a fight.

A critical moment would be, say, when the apes position on the food chain finally rises above the humans, and the events surrounding that moment. That's a moment to stop and see. Or the first time an "ape" has sex with a human, and something is actually produced. Big moment!

The movie is largely occupied with the idea "they're just like us" which is fine I guess, but I didn't find it interesting. I'm 100% on board with the idea they are just like us. That they can be flawed in the same way we're flawed. That they feel love for their children as we do. I did not find these ideas any more challenging than a WWI film about soldiers who come out of their trenches on Christmas and discover the enemy is just like them.

As it happens the character I cared about most was the big ol' Orangutan. He was the most high-minded of them all. While Caesar was still caught up in the rat race of being alpha and other such pettiness, the Orangutan was so over that stuff. He was like the ape Buddha. Way more enlightened.

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 28709
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #492 on: February 17, 2017, 01:50:05 AM »
Well, I too, would love to see more of ape-Buddha, AKA Dr. Zaius's great great grandfather. He's a cool guy, certainly not fully explored. I'd disagree that Caesar's worrying about being alpha, he's more concerned that his next-in-line is gonna be destructive not only for humans but also for the apes (hmm, now where have I seen that recently?).

I think you're right that this moment didn't necessarily have to be the turning point, though I think the movie justifies its importance in two ways. Firstly, working backwards, the conclusion sets up the ape vs. military battle that is to come, a clear escalation from this settlement (albeit defended with military tools) the apes tussled with in the current film. This is the moment that leads to that, so it's important. Secondly, and I think more interestingly and importantly, that escalation comes out of misunderstandings and prejudices, the stuff of all wars in one way or another. The film clearly outlines how both sides gear up for war through rhetoric and racial othering (again, sound familiar?). It's a fantastic depiction of that process, with sympathetic characters all around, including the villains to some degree. The human fear is understandable, they've lost everything so far and are just trying to hold on to what they've got. The apes fear the same prosecution and violence they've all experienced from humans before things went to shit. It's understandable on both sides.

I think this movie is indeed about human history and ape history. It deals with the aftermath of animal testing and, shall we say, incarceration? It also deals with the history of humanity in the constant warring between factions based mostly on the idea that they are different in one way or another. This is that history, it's just rendered into a human/ape-scale. That's part of why people called it Shakespearean. It's what Shakespeare did, he wrestled with big ideas through the human characters that represented ideas and drama greater than themselves and their interactions. It just happens to also have an ape riding in a tank.
Check out my blog of many topics

“I’m not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!”

MartinTeller

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 17864
  • martinteller.wordpress.com
    • my movie blog
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #493 on: February 17, 2017, 10:24:31 AM »
Seeing this does make me want to go back and watch Copycat again. I haven't seen it in ages but I remember it being really good. I'd say there's probably only a 10% chance it holds up. Has it even been mentioned on the forum before? :))

yep

Sandy

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12075
  • "The life we build, we never stop creating.”
    • Sandy's Cinematic Musings
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #494 on: February 17, 2017, 11:14:46 AM »
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

Right now it's Golden Gate National Park of the Apes.

:))

And big laughs for the Dr. Cornelius gif too!

philip918

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4580
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #495 on: February 17, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
Seeing this does make me want to go back and watch Copycat again. I haven't seen it in ages but I remember it being really good. I'd say there's probably only a 10% chance it holds up. Has it even been mentioned on the forum before? :))

I actually loved Copycat as a kid. Probably watched it three or four times. You're right, probably a slim chance it holds up, but it is a movie I think about re-watching every now and then.

pixote

  • Administrator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 34237
  • Up with generosity!
    • yet more inanities!
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #496 on: February 17, 2017, 12:01:56 PM »
Agoraphobic Sigourney Weaver < Blind Madeleine Stowe

pixote
Great  |  Near Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Fair  |  Mixed  |  Middling  |  Bad

philip918

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4580
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #497 on: February 17, 2017, 12:13:11 PM »
Paterson

Really liked this overall, especially the structure which was simple, but wonderfully executed. However, Golshifteh Farahani didn't really work for me. Mostly because of the incredibly corny dialogue she was forced to spew. Pat and full of cliches. I love Driver as an actor and he's fine here, but isn't required to do much.

I loved the little touches like the recurring twins and their English bulldog practically steals the show. It's a nice, quiet film about the artistic work people do in their workaday lives.

I do have to say, for a movie about poetry, his poetry was really bad. Which isn't exactly important. It's about the act of making art more than the supposed quality.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 12:45:03 PM by philip918 »

MattDrufke

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 738
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #498 on: February 17, 2017, 05:32:39 PM »
Quick little review of Sully, which I watched yesterday. When the movie was done, I felt like, "Oh, this was a good movie and I liked the performances enough, but man, I'm glad that movie's done. It felt like it went on for a while."

Then I looked at the running time and saw that it was something like 95 minutes. Not a good sign.

We'll call it a C.
@ihatemattdrufke

StarCarly

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4193
  • Something about a pillow.
Re: Respond to the last movie you watched
« Reply #499 on: February 17, 2017, 05:44:49 PM »
As I mentioned in my review of Sully; it's a great story, but perhaps not a feature-length story.
"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech."

Films Watched in 2017

Letterboxd