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Author Topic: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions  (Read 163400 times)

Teproc

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2017, 12:03:45 PM »
I don't like "based on a true story" movies to be making shit up.

This kind of escapes me. You cannot expect a film to be a history lesson... that would make for a rather poor film most of the time. The biggest problem biopics have is precisely that they are obsessed with "getting it right" and forced to include stuff for no other reason than "well, it happened". I guess there's an argument to be made that many people will watch the film and take it for truth, but... well, they shouldn't. A movie isn't a historical source, it's not a piece of journalism. To me it has no duty to stick to the truth, at all.
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MartinTeller

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2017, 12:32:19 PM »
No, there's no duty, I just generally don't like it. It's not a hardline stance, of course there are plenty of exceptions. It depends on the nature of the fiction being presented... if it's a really transparent dramatic device, for example, that would bug me. Things done for the sake of presenting a more effective/convenient narrative (for instance, compressing a bunch of people into one character) are less problematic.

Melvil

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2017, 12:42:08 PM »
*shrug* I don't like "based on a true story" movies to be making shit up. That annoys me in general, but especially when it has troubling racial implications. I don't think that makes me part of a "nothing is ever good enough" crowd, so please don't try to lump me into some strawman group. Thanks.

I wasn't at all, so you're welcome. :P I was lumping you in the "encourage you to see it yourself to decide" group. Is it not fair to want you to see the movie and judge it for yourself?

I tend to agree about "making shit up", but that really is this entire movie. You have to accept that it's playing very fast and loose with history (characters that represent general attitudes rather than specific individuals, decades of events compressed into a story of a few years, etc.).

If you can't get over that, that's totally okay, but I find the idea that "troubling racial implications" only works one way rather troubling in itself. Why is it okay to "make shit up" that vilifies the white characters, but as soon as one of them is portrayed positively they've gone too far? Calling it "whitewashing" is such an uncharitable and racially charged attack against a film that, while not great, I think really doesn't deserve it.

MartinTeller

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2017, 12:54:58 PM »
If you can't get over that, that's totally okay, but I find the idea that "troubling racial implications" only works one way rather troubling in itself. Why is it okay to "make shit up" that vilifies the white characters, but as soon as one of them is portrayed positively they've gone too far?

No, I wasn't aware of it happening the other way (exaggerating/inventing white villainy as opposed to exaggerating/inventing white heroism) until your post. That's problematic as well. Although IMO, it's not quite as problematic.

Melvil

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #124 on: February 08, 2017, 01:16:54 PM »
That's problematic as well. Although IMO, it's not quite as problematic.

Eh, that's arguable I guess. I think the movie's position is that even if this stuff didn't happen at NASA, it's still "true" in that it happened elsewhere.

Considering how much of the movie is spent on these fabrications (including the running back and forth between buildings to use the colored bathrooms, which is a huge part of the movie and leads to the (apparently objectionable) scene where Kevin Costner abolishes the segregation (that didn't exist at that time), etc.), I just take issue with characterizing this movies form of fiddling with the truth "whitewashing". In at least this one instance, the true version is a more positive portrayal of race relations at the time.

Melvil

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #125 on: February 08, 2017, 01:19:38 PM »
Oh yeah, I was going to post these links. Probably the best part of the movie is it got me to do a bunch of reading/watching about the women it features!

Here's a cool interview with Katherine Johnson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=211&v=r8gJqKyIGhE

And I didn't fully read through this page but it seems to pretty accurately reflect what I've learned about the differences between the movie and the reality on at least a basic level:
http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/hidden-figures/

oldkid

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #126 on: February 08, 2017, 11:22:33 PM »
I will be doing the same as I was planning to do anyway: watch it on DVD with my daughters.  The only difference is that I will tell my daughters about the added scenes to create a male/white savior and ask them if they think that's a bad thing.
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Melvil

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #127 on: February 09, 2017, 12:52:14 AM »
Ugh. Guess I'm fighting an uphill battle here. Think what you want I guess but it's so unfortunate that the movie is being framed this way for people.

PeacefulAnarchy

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #128 on: February 09, 2017, 01:15:55 AM »
I haven't seen the movie, but
Quote
Her white boss, played by Kevin Costner, discovers this only when Johnson returns to her desk from a bathroom break, drenched after running for half an hour in the rain. He is aghast, apparently having been unaware racism was taking place under his nose. So he picks up a crowbar, heads to the bathroom, and smashes the Colored Ladies Room sign. Then, as a crowd of black women look on, he delivers a powerful, funny rejection of Jim Crow segregation: “No more colored restrooms. No more white restrooms…. Here at NASA, we all pee the same color.”
This scene seems more like bad screenwriting meant to create drama than a serious attempt at creating a male/white saviour.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Random Movie Thoughts and Questions
« Reply #129 on: February 09, 2017, 12:02:43 PM »
*shrug* I don't like "based on a true story" movies to be making shit up. That annoys me in general, but especially when it has troubling racial implications.

Agreed on both counts.
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