Author Topic: Nitpicking  (Read 456 times)

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1796
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 11:06:44 AM »
It's a thorny issue. It's not realistic for her to be here (yes Alexandre Dumas but this is coded as much earlier), but obviously the film is not realistic anyway : everyone is speaking English. Which, to be clear, I'm totally fine with, I'm not insane... but I did wince at this choice. I get why they did it, and I understand the arguments in favor of it... but I don't have to like it. Just like I don't have to like Emma Watson's very British way of saying "Papa".

I guess it just feels cheap. Like : "look how progressive we are !". No, Disney, you really can't be called progressive when you're making an adaptation of Beauty and the Beast and completely avoiding the central subject AGAIN.

Sam the Cinema Snob

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 23551
  • A Monkey with a Gun
    • Creative Criticism
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 11:07:01 AM »
I just want a black Spider-Man.  :(

DarkeningHumour

  • Godfather
  • ******
  • Posts: 8301
  • When not sure if sarcasm look at username.
    • Pretentiously Yours
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 11:07:55 AM »
I was taken out of the movie a little bit, at least at first, because of that element. But then I remembered that I was in a movie theater in 2017 and everything was fine. Movies are not about the times they are set in, they are about the times they are made in.

The film does make more of an effort than the animated version to set this in a specific time, but that doesn't change what I mentioned above. Movies are not and have never been historically accurate. Last year The VVitch got a lot of heat for how far it went to recreate the time it was set in. But the film was still influenced by its being created in 2015. That's just what happens.

Further, Disney was doing it for a very specific reason. We can talk about the degree of cynicism we should be seeing the black character inclusions with, but it's not like they screwed up and thought they were being accurate with the inclusion (even though as Martin indicates, we should probably also investigate the assumption that there wouldn't be any black people at this place and time).

If there would be, they would be servants or slaves in metropolitan areas, not prestigious members of a rural community.

More to the point, inclusion is important, but why should Disney have chosen this movie to diversify its cast instead of another one where that would have made more sense? I don't see anyone complaining about how few black people there are in Mulan - cue Eddie Murphy joke. No one's wondering why there were no Latinos in Moana. If Disney wants to promote diversity, they certainly don't lack movies where they can do that. Just this year they are going to release three Marvel movies and a Star Wars one and Mithra knows what else. Make Spidey's best friend black and his teachers too, they live in New York. Out of its roster of dozens of superheros, pick a couple of black ones to enlarge its GoG team, it's a parallel universe. Why should the extra effort be made in an era and time that do not warrant it, to serve a minority of the American demography?

And for the record, the time-specificity of the VVitch was one of the best things about that movie. In fact, it was probably the single thing that most set it apart.
Society is dumb. Art is everything. - Junior

https://pretensiouslyyours.wordpress.com/

DarkeningHumour

  • Godfather
  • ******
  • Posts: 8301
  • When not sure if sarcasm look at username.
    • Pretentiously Yours
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 11:08:22 AM »
I just want a black Spider-Man.  :(

Only if his name is Peter Parker. I can't stand the Miles Morales comics.
Society is dumb. Art is everything. - Junior

https://pretensiouslyyours.wordpress.com/

PeacefulAnarchy

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
    • Criticker reviews
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 11:10:43 AM »
Why should the extra effort be made in an era and time that do not warrant it, to serve a minority of the American demography?
What extra effort? Also it was probably a directorial decision not a from high up Disney decision.

MartinTeller

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 15203
  • martinteller.wordpress.com
    • my movie blog
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 11:17:48 AM »
Why should the extra effort be made in an era and time that do not warrant it, to serve a minority of the American demography?
What extra effort?

edit: whoops that joke doesn't work, forgot we were talking about a non-animated Disney movie

still, I agree.... what "extra effort"?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 11:34:27 AM by MartinTeller »

1SO

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 27719
  • Marathon Man
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 11:25:32 AM »
Disney has been promoting color blind casting. Out at Disneyland there's a live stage version of Frozen that blends all ethnicities. So you could have a Chinese Anna whose sister Elsa is black. When the show starts they're kids and the ethnicity doesn't typically match the adult version. Makes me feel old that it takes me out of the show, but Disney wants the best people for the part, no matter the ethnicity.


And yet, I didn't have a problem when it was done for Hamilton. Maybe because I don't have a definitive image of those characters outside of George Washington.

pixote

  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 31472
  • Up with generosity!
    • yet more inanities!
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 11:27:21 AM »
Yeah, I could suspend my disbelief for the magical transformation of man to beast, but the presence of black people was a bridge too far!

No.

pixote
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1796
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2017, 11:27:37 AM »
Disney has been promoting color blind casting. Out at Disneyland there's a live stage version of Frozen that blends all ethnicities. So you could have a Chinese Anna whose sister Elsa is black. When the show starts they're kids and the ethnicity doesn't typically match the adult version. Makes me feel old that it takes me out of the show, but Disney wants the best people for the part, no matter the ethnicity.


And yet, I didn't have a problem when it was done for Hamilton. Maybe because I don't have a definitive image of those characters outside of George Washington.

Isn't it the whole point of Hamilton though ? That has an All-American cast right ? It's different than just having a black character essentially in the background.

1SO

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 27719
  • Marathon Man
Re: Nitpicking
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 12:17:11 PM »
American Daveed Diggs plays Frenchman Marquis de Lafayette.