Author Topic: Wonder Woman  (Read 1859 times)

don s.

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2018, 07:25:26 PM »
It's god-awful.
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DarthNibbles

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2018, 08:38:59 PM »
Yeah, I know I'm late to the party despite seeing this in theatres and buying it the day it was available at home, but whatever. Y'all are wrong :D

First (or second?) let me say that I, as a rule, don't watch comic book movies. I gave up on them a few years ago; why bother going to see a movie, and then complaining how how awful it is to everyone? Just let them enjoy their popcorn flicks, and I'll enjoy movies with decent writers.

But man... 2017 was a good year. Wonder Woman, Logan, and Thor: Ragnarok all managed to surprise and delight me (each for different reasons, of course).

Anyway.. WW. This movie was a study in contradictions. On the one hand, you have Diana's hopeless naivete about the nature of evil, and it's heartbreaking to watch her realize just how shitty humanity really is. But then they whip out Ares, and let her have a CGI god-smack anyway :D

The final battle against Ares had to occur after Diana's disillusionment, because the whole point is that she's willing to fight to defend humanity in spite of our flaws, in spite of the fact that we don't deserve her help or protection.
Likewise, she had to kill Ares specifically so that there isn't some all-powerful God of War out there corrupting the hearts of men. If Ares had remained alive then it would have left open the possibility that our continued wars were simply more of his doing. The fact that our wars continue without Ares' influence, but that Diana keeps on doing her thing anyway, is what I loved most about the character.

The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe. Good and evil are more subtle than that, and humanity is more complex. Wonder Woman (the movie) embraces that complexity by showing that killing the "villain" doesn't end evil and doesn't "save the world." It also admits that sometimes killing the villain is exactly what's needed.
(Case in point: Dr Poison standing ahead and to WW's left, WW holding a tank. "You're wrong about them," she says to Ares, then throws the tank - where? - ahead and to her left. She tells the villain he's wrong about humans being evil and then drops a tank on Dr Poison anyway. Because even if humanity on the whole isn't wholly evil {or wholly good}, there are individuals who lean more to one side than another).

While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"), I saw enough bits and pieces of both Suicide Squad and Dawn of Justice on TV to make skip watching those movies entirely. I don't expect to get many movies that I enjoy based on comic books, but I'm glad for this one.

1SO

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 11:02:21 PM »
Yeah, I know I'm late to the party despite seeing this in theatres and buying it the day it was available at home, but whatever. Y'all are wrong :D
I'm already lost since people here were all over the scale on WW. There's no way Totoro and me can both be wrong.


First (or second?) let me say that I, as a rule, don't watch comic book movies. I gave up on them a few years ago; why bother going to see a movie, and then complaining how how awful it is to everyone? Just let them enjoy their popcorn flicks, and I'll enjoy movies with decent writers.
Comic Book movies are at such a saturation point that not watching them must be like not watching Animated films. It limits your options in ways (mostly good) I can't wrap my head around. Certainly frees you up for some good exploration. However, I will disagree with you about the quality of writing for comic book movies, especially in 2017. I'm still trying to figure out how Spider-Man: Homecoming had such quality writing when there are 6 credited writers.


Anyway.. WW. This movie was a study in contradictions. On the one hand, you have Diana's hopeless naivete about the nature of evil, and it's heartbreaking to watch her realize just how shitty humanity really is. But then they whip out Ares, and let her have a CGI god-smack anyway :D
Sounds like I'm right so far.


The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe.
I'm not familiar with this moment in Star Wars. Which film are you referring to?


While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"),
This also sounds like the last 20 minutes of Wonder Woman.


I saw enough bits and pieces of both Suicide Squad and Dawn of Justice on TV to make skip watching those movies entirely.
Watching both of these films was like having a kidney cut out. Watching Justice League wasn't quite as good a choice as giving an orphan a puppy - I hope I'm using that metaphor correctly. - but emulating The Avengers is a step in the right direction for the DCEU.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2018, 06:05:28 AM »
Justice League is at least as bad as Dawn. Worse, in my opinion, despite the Whedonisms.

Old Republic refers to a series of video games. They have better writing than your average SW movie.

I don't deny WW sets up interesting questions, dichotomies, paradoxes, and what have yous. I only deny they are very well treated. The end of the movie is a mess of a message. She kills Ares, but that doesn't change humanity, but that doesn't mean anytihng because he wasn't Ares after all, then Ares gets a villain monologue that answers no questions at all and things go downhill from there.
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DarthNibbles

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2018, 06:12:56 AM »
I'm already lost since people here were all over the scale on WW. There's no way Totoro and me can both be wrong.
Fair enough, I read the first two pages and skimmed the rest, but it seemed the consensus here was that most people didn't like WW. I apologize for misunderstanding your opinion.

The most interesting part of any movie is when a character has to make a difficult decision. And I don't mean difficult in the Star Wars manichean way; "Give this orphan a puppy or cut out their kidney" isn't exactly a tough decision, no matter what Knights of the Old Republic would have you believe.
I'm not familiar with this moment in Star Wars. Which film are you referring to?
Knights of the Old Republic is a video game, an RPG, based on the Star Wars universe. They advertise allowing the player to make meaningful choices that affect the story, but their representation of good and evil is so cartoonishly exaggerated as to be laughable. The example wasn't meant as a specific moment but rather as a representation of how many artists working in media represent the concept of a choice.

I've never been given to a Manichean view of the universe, so that kind of choice holds no interest for me. That's why I liked Diana's struggle in this film: even though she picked a side in the war, it's not like that side was full of saints.

While I skipped out on Justice League (it looks like an Avengers knock off, "This guy is evil because he punches really hard! We need to punch him even HARDER!"),
This also sounds like the last 20 minutes of Wonder Woman.
Yes, but it was only 20 minutes of the film, as opposed to 2 hours 20 minutes like in Age of Ultron (the film that made me mostly quit on Marvel). If it were the whole point of the movie I wouldn't care for it; being a piece of the film it fits, especially within the progression of Diana's arc. She begins hopelessly naive and optimistic, she because disappointed but is still optimistic, she becomes disillusioned and wants to give up, then she becomes hopeful again.