Author Topic: 1SO vs. All the Directors  (Read 41242 times)

1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors - Michael Moore
« Reply #920 on: July 21, 2021, 01:18:43 AM »
Michael Moore Ranked List
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For better or worse, Michael Moore defined documentary filmmaking for me. He came along as I was getting deep into cinema, when the only names I knew for documentaries were Errol Morris, Frederick Wiseman and the Maysles'. I had seen Morris' Thin Blue Line so to me a documentary was expected to have a definite point-of-view and not be a  casual observer. Michael Moore defined that and he could put a spotlight on an issue while also being pretty funny.

Starting with 2007's Sicko I started to notice an over-reliance of stock footage to beef up his films, and his personal appearances on talk shows or political events became more one-note than a Bernie Sanders speech. Hard to tell if he's become like every other filmmaker that tires out repeating themselves. Did he stop developing or have I outgrown him?

For an answer, I'm going right to the end of the line and watching Fahrenheit 11/9 (2018)

Eric/E.T.

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors - Michael Moore
« Reply #921 on: July 21, 2021, 01:54:26 AM »

Starting with 2007's Sicko I started to notice an over-reliance of stock footage to beef up his films, and his personal appearances on talk shows or political events became more one-note than a Bernie Sanders speech.

I was going to go with a side-eye GIF, but...I'll just go with a "c'mon". Not fair at all.

I haven't seen a Michael Moore film in a long-time. He's from the home state, and Roger & Me was an immensely important work that spawned several others.

I'm not sure I completely understand his politics, but I mean, I loved Fahrenheit 9/11 when it came out because it spoke the truth about the mass murdering, war crime committing animal in the White House. Bowling for Columbine and Sicko were good because he got to focus in on a couple of major issues and show their human cost. I haven't seen Capitalism: A Love Story, so maybe that would give me more insight to his broader political beliefs, but I mean, he wanted Oprah to run for president at one point, which is just a weird and terrible idea.
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1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #922 on: July 21, 2021, 09:24:23 AM »
I honestly can't tell if your defending or attacking Moore.

I like his work, but I've become less enamored with his voice the more he's come out in front of the camera.

1SO

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1SO vs. All the Directors - Errol Morris
« Reply #923 on: July 21, 2021, 03:04:19 PM »
Errol Morris Ranked List
★ ★ ★ - Good: #152 out of 397

I learned about Morris through Siskel & Ebert. Luckily, I started with The Thin Blue Line because when I was finally able to watch his earlier films, I wasn't nearly as impressed by them as Ebert. Kind of strange how he's faded way back in the last decade. I wasn't even sure there was anything new to look at.

American Dharma (2018), a portrait of Steve Bannon, is almost taunting me to watch it. I just don't think I can stomach a film that allegedly gives a balance of Bannon as a person responsible for good and bad things. (I don't know why this worked with Mr. Death, but made The Fog of War a toothless affair. It's also why I have no interest in The Unknown Known, about Donald Rumsfeld.)

I'm going to buck the recommendations for the above and A Brief History of Time and watch Tabloid (2010).

Antares

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #924 on: July 21, 2021, 04:14:49 PM »
I like his work, but I've become less enamored with his voice the more he's come out in front of the camera.

Now I'm confused, isn't that part of Moore's schtick straight from the beginning?
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1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #925 on: July 21, 2021, 04:21:10 PM »
Yes, but when he's on talk shows or news panels, it's all him and none of the documentary work. He works best when there's a package of video footage supporting his points, because when he talks ABOUT that same information, it sounds even more slanted and disingenuous. 

smirnoff

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #926 on: July 22, 2021, 01:18:08 AM »
(I don't know why this worked with Mr. Death, but made The Fog of War a toothless affair. It's also why I have no interest in The Unknown Known, about Donald Rumsfeld.)

If you found FoW toothless, and that's why it didn't work for you, than The Unknown Known is definitely one to avoid.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #927 on: July 22, 2021, 01:26:17 AM »
I honestly can't tell if your defending or attacking Moore.

I like his work, but I've become less enamored with his voice the more he's come out in front of the camera.

Well, I'm doing both.

I need to see more modern work. I'm positive on the films I've seen. Roger & Me, Bowling for Columbine, and Sicko work well because I think he's better when honing in on an issue. I loved F9/11 just for being big and trying to wake everyone up about the disaster in the WH in Bush (someone I think was a bigger negative than Trump was, though obviously they were both disastrous for our country).

I just don't know where he fits in, so far as major and minor political movements in America go right now. He's good with his agitprop, but I don't know to what ends he is ultimately working. His oeuvre consists of single-issue advocacy and extensive hit jobs. I need to see Capitalism to really put my finger on it, so that's probably happening sooner than later.

Just to the point on "balance" I see within this thread: I don't see the value. Tell the truth. The truth doesn't have multiple sides, just one. The people on the other side of the truth are liars (or maybe just ignorant with a misunderstanding, but end up tools for the liars anyway if they never enlighten themselves).
Just because a person has never walked in my shoes, that doesnít mean they canít gravitate to the art. - Mach-Hommy

A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

smirnoff

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #928 on: July 22, 2021, 01:46:11 AM »
I like his work, but I've become less enamored with his voice the more he's come out in front of the camera.

I think these days it probably does his message a disservice in terms of reaching an audience outside the choir. There's no surprise or secret about who he is, which way he leans, and who he supports politically. And with how divided things are, people outside his audience will never even be exposed to him (except when he decides to troll them for a doc... a tactic which is quite stale at this point).

The shows he appears on, who he speaks with, his twitter, his podcast... to me it just waters down his message. There was a time where when a Michael Moore doc being released was an event. People would speculate what issue he would tackle next. Now that's all gone... he's neck deep in every political issue under the sun. His twitter jumps from outrage to outrage like a game of hot potato. Does he imagine he's reaching anybody with such scattered quips? He's reduced himself to being just another voice in the race for retweets or soundbites, responding to the narrative instead of creating one organically.


Eric/E.T.

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Re: 1SO vs. All the Directors
« Reply #929 on: July 22, 2021, 04:51:23 AM »
I like his work, but I've become less enamored with his voice the more he's come out in front of the camera.

I think these days it probably does his message a disservice in terms of reaching an audience outside the choir. There's no surprise or secret about who he is, which way he leans, and who he supports politically. And with how divided things are, people outside his audience will never even be exposed to him (except when he decides to troll them for a doc... a tactic which is quite stale at this point).

See, I think there's a bit of an inconsistency to his beliefs and his overall political and economic stances. Just reading up on him a little bit, he empathizes with Obama and the healthcare plan that came from Republicans, but then later he throws his support behind Bernie Sanders. He's kind of a lukewarm socialist with what seems like a lasting interest in Democratic politicians. In a few interviews, he sounds a little confused about what he envisions for a better America. Certainly he's on the left, but where exactly, hard to tell.

I didn't realize Capitalism: A Love Story was from 2009. 12 years! So much has changed in the movement since then. I don't know what I'll make of it.
Just because a person has never walked in my shoes, that doesnít mean they canít gravitate to the art. - Mach-Hommy

A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire