Author Topic: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")  (Read 360 times)

saltine

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#650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« on: September 23, 2017, 04:17:15 PM »
In 2015, the comic book adaptation “Kingsman: The Secret Service” opened to divisive - but mostly favorable - reviews. Some critics appreciated the movie’s hyper-violent reimagining of a Bond-esque spy agency; others found it sadistic and in poor taste. Adam and Josh... skipped it entirely. This week, they caught up with it for a review of the new sequel “Kingsman: The Golden Circle.” Plus, Adam's interview with Kogonada, director of "Columbus," the acclaimed new film starring John Cho (and some famous Modernist buildings).
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wolf

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 08:09:33 PM »
I found it strange that the infamous church scene from the first movie wasn’t discussed since that is what really created a buzz when the movie came out with polarizing reactions (and the final ending when Eggsy cashes in on a promise).  Personally, that scene pushed to from an average to a good movie and almost felt like applauding afterwards due to brilliant choreography that felt entirely novel.  I suppose if I was religious, it might a bad taste in my mouth but hope those religiously inclined like Josh can put that aside. 

Adam

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 09:00:23 PM »
I found it strange that the infamous church scene from the first movie wasn’t discussed since that is what really created a buzz when the movie came out with polarizing reactions (and the final ending when Eggsy cashes in on a promise).  Personally, that scene pushed to from an average to a good movie and almost felt like applauding afterwards due to brilliant choreography that felt entirely novel.  I suppose if I was religious, it might a bad taste in my mouth but hope those religiously inclined like Josh can put that aside.
What's the church scene?
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wolf

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 09:05:41 PM »
It was censored in some countries.  Did you see a foreign version of the movie? 

You can see it on youtube ("church massacre scene kingsman").
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 09:13:35 PM by wolf »

wolf

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 09:27:41 PM »
Also check out "FAMILY GUY KINGSMAN PARODY" on youtube. 

1SO

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 10:21:26 PM »
I found it strange that the infamous church scene from the first movie wasn’t discussed since that is what really created a buzz when the movie came out with polarizing reactions (and the final ending when Eggsy cashes in on a promise).  Personally, that scene pushed to from an average to a good movie and almost felt like applauding afterwards due to brilliant choreography that felt entirely novel.  I suppose if I was religious, it might a bad taste in my mouth but hope those religiously inclined like Josh can put that aside.
What's the church scene?

Kingsman: The Secret Service
* *

The film lost me at the church full of hate-mongers. Started out great. Very fun and clever and a nice-looking film. Colin Firth and Sam Jackson are clearly enjoying the eccentricities of their characters. They have a fancy dinner consisting of McDonalds, which is either a sly bit of product placement or an ad so blatant it's funny. (Firth ends the evening by saying, "Thank you for the happy... meal." It's perfect.) The darkness Matthew Vaughn enjoys too much blips up now and then, but just blips.

Then there's a scene involving dogs and firearms. The dark clouds move in, but the acting during and after give the incident dramatic weight and I move on. The problem with that church scene is that the explanation is very late in coming. It's a showpiece of violence involving people you can hate, but wouldn't wish this kind of sadistic destruction upon. It's not cool and you don't root for anyone, including the Kingsman. It's all wrong because it goes on well past the point. The film pauses to take in the carnage. It becomes a geek show of CG violence.

Drained the cool right out of the film, leaving it hollow. All the spy action that followed carried with it the bad taste of that church scene, and added new mistakes. The female member of the team is given a side mission placing her nowhere near the final action. (Rooting from the sidelines.) Carnage set to disco says one thing, but cutting to a mother attempting to butcher her crying child says the opposite. "Manners maketh man," is a key phrase in the film. Matthew Vaughn shows a distinct lack of them.

Without wanting to go into much detail, 1SO I completely disagree with you. I loved the church scene, if only for the sheer style of it and the great choreography.

On a level of style and fight choreography, the church scene is a marvel. But what are we watching here? A character I like dishing out a punishment I despise that an audience is meant to cheer on because the victims are painted in broad strokes as deserving of such brutality?

We can suspend moral judgment for the duration of the fight I think, particularly considering that I think we have grounds to assume something is wrong with Lancelot ; he would not normally assail civilians this way. The rationale for the fighting is then explained right after the it has ended. If your qualms reside more in how we see "innocents" being butchered, is that much worse than knowing millions are dying offscreen, be it in this or in some other movie ?

There's our difference in experiencing the scene. At the time, I thought he was having a more extreme version of his workout, like he had earlier with the laddies in the bar. I didn't assume that something was wrong but that Lancelot saw the deep-seeded hate within the group and decided they deserved such a harsh punishment. I turned off during the scene, so when the explanation came after, it didn't retro make the scene okay. Had I known towards the beginning of the massacre what was really going on, it certainly would've helped. Instead, I'm looking at the gleefully executed carnage questioning if and why I'm supposed to find it entertaining. Put that exact same scene inside Jackson's lair and make it against his henchmen, it's a totally different experience.

I would understand if he had just shot a couple of southerners, but did you really think he would casually massacre an entire congregation ? Also, that wouldn't explain why everyone started fighting against everyone and not just him.

What is the point of the scene? Why devote so much time to what is one point made after the lengthy fight scene? Vaughn doesn't just get to the point, he revels in the stylish destruction. To what end? To show how cool he can make a no-holds-barred fight scene? Oldboy has a show-off one-shot hallway fight, but there's a point to the struggle. Matrix: Reloaded has the Chateau battle, which adds little to the overall story - he could've just flown off to the freeway - but within that fight there is good vs. evil. People who are in the way of Neo completing his heroic duty. The church scene in Kingsmen has nothing like that. It's just a room of people getting ripped apart. The reason for it is made after the fact, which makes the scene far too long for what it is set up to do.

I think you're overthinking a straightforward entertainment piece.

Can't we just make awesome scenes for awesomeness' sake ?

Will

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 03:21:35 AM »
Loved the Kogonada interview. Adam, you outdid yourself. Knocked it out of the park.

Adam

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 07:09:13 PM »
Loved the Kogonada interview. Adam, you outdid yourself. Knocked it out of the park.
Thanks! One of my favorite to do - just a very calm presence, easy to talk with.
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Adam

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Re: #650: Kingsman: The Golden Circle / Kogonada ("Columbus")
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 07:09:29 PM »
It was censored in some countries.  Did you see a foreign version of the movie? 

You can see it on youtube ("church massacre scene kingsman").
oh yeah, THAT church scene.
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