Author Topic: The Last Jedi  (Read 2299 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2017, 04:59:05 AM »
Junior is bae.

The best lightsaber fight is Vader v. all in Rogue One though.

Thanks friend. U 2.

But I'd also argue that Vader's is more of a slaughter than it is a fight. Is there any real, ahem, resistance to him in that hallway?

I will concede to that.
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Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2017, 08:30:49 AM »
- Why aren't people hyperspacing into each other's fleets as a common space tactic all the time?
Because it's suicidal?

If you want to go there, you may as well ask why a computer couldn't have jumped the ship into the enemy fleet or why all the fighters aren't piloted by droids. The simple answer is because it's more dramatic if human lives are involved...at least until we get to a point where the robots gain sentience and we're all super friendly with them and give them rights and stuff. 

Plus, this is Star Wars, which I'd argue is just as much fantasy as it is sci-fi. If you want hard science in your science fiction, you should probably go watch something heady like Primer.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2017, 08:55:10 AM »
I would argue SW is more fantasy than sci-fi, so I think we're on the same page.

Now I want to watch the SW version of Battlestar Galactica.
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karlwinslow

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2017, 10:45:36 AM »
Why is Laura Dern in this movie?

Solid Blake

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2017, 11:05:48 AM »
- The mirror sequence. It looks cool, but seems too disconnected from all we know about the dark side to make sense mythologically.

I think it does. It gives Rey the impression that she is alone and solely dependent on herself in both her past and future. The dark side is vanity and isolation (i.e. Snoke, Palpatine) and that was presented to her in the vision. Also, if youre into the the gray lore, youll see the potential for Rey to tap into both sides of the force (which is where Im hoping episode IX is leading to).

DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #75 on: December 20, 2017, 11:14:51 AM »
I think Kylo offers more grey potential than Rey at the moment.
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philip918

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2017, 12:50:53 PM »
Luke really shouldn't have left footprints in the salt during his showdown with Kylo. Would have been a good tease. Or was it there and I missed it?
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2017, 12:59:12 PM »
I don't think he left footprints. Kylo did.
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Junior

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2017, 04:12:19 PM »
I paid attention to a few things the second time around to see if things were set up beforehand or to make sure certain things happened in a certain order.

One was the sequence of Rey's parentage reveal. Kylo tells her to search her feelings and she says first that her parents were nobody, then he confirms it. This is important, because Jedi searching their feelings means that they will find the truth based on previous movies. I'm pretty sure that ain't gonna change, at least not in the movies.

The other was whether Luke's planets really had two suns. The only shot, as far as I could see, that had the two suns was the one where he was looking at them after doing the astral projection stuff and right before he poofs. All the shots around that one show only one sun at a time, and the same goes for all previous shots on that island. It's a nifty touch, then, because it comes out of nowhere and really hits that nostalgic button (I don't think most of the OT are that pretty to look at, but that one shot sure is).
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AliceGuyBlache

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2017, 05:23:05 PM »
2. Kids playing with Luke Skywalker figurines in the final scene. BECAUSE DISNEY NEED TO SELL THE TOYZ. This doesn't sour the film as much as the previous scene, but if the Leia scene didn't exist and this one still did, it would still keep me back from overlooking the other minor problems I had with the film.
I wrote the same and since then I've been listening to other opinions that mostly love the final scene, taking it for what I believe was its true intention, showing the optimism of hope. I can believe that was the intent, but coming from a Star Wars film, one of the great merchandising tools of our lifetime, I can't get past seeing it as selling the mania to future generations.

Is there anything these kids could have done that would not inspire this response? If they were lightsabering around it wouldn't change anything, lightsabers come in all kinds of buyable shapes and sizes. I suppose the one could have just been telling the story to the others, but is that how kids work? Do they sit down to tell each other stories at that age, or do they act them out? It's been about 25 years for me, but the toy version feels like the most realistic thing they could have been doing. We got past the cynicism for The Lego Movie, when are we gonna get past it for Star Wars? (I feel I should point out that perhaps the most important plot/character point in the film, Rey's decision to not join Kylo Ren, is a choice against cynicism.)

What are you talking about? Legos ARE toys. There wasn't a lego film then legos made from that film. And I don't know about you, but I never played with soldier action figures based on real life people. Chris Kyle isn't a massively popular action figure.

Your line of argument is so confusing. It presupposes that this scene was the only thing that they could've done, that this is the only way they could've ended the movie, then you appear to negotiate as if the screenwriter was cornered by this apparently logical conclusion. People do this kind of technique all of the time, in order to justify their defense.

No, there's plenty of different conclusions they could've gone.

The entire trilogy up to this point has people telling stories. There could've been an older person of authority telling the story of Luke Skywalker with kids surrounding him. That happens, that's still true and authentic. Point being I have no problem with the idea behind the scene, just with the execution. Even the lightsaber broom isn't so much a problem because lightsabers are just swords. But action figures? Knowing the course that the film series took because of the merchandising (Harrison Ford being told by Lucas that he wouldn't kill off his character in RETURN OF THE JEDI because no one would buy dead Han dolls), it leaves a pretty sour taste in my mouth. Add to the fact that Disney is infamous for milking films for all its toy worth, it just sours more. And to tie that all up, the way it's shot, with the kid's hand moving the action figure toward the camera (!!!) triggered instant 90s toy commercials in my mind. No. It's a bad scene, regardless of the idea behind it, because the execution is god-awful.

1. The concern going into The Lego Movie was that it was a cynical way of boosting Lego sales.
2. While that may have been an outcome, it only worked because the movie was so good.
3. The movie itself actually undermines Lego's business model because it's about being creative outside of specific Lego sets.
4. Turns out the cynicism towards The Lego Movie is unjustified.


About that...







Etc.

All of these on-the-fly creations are sold worldwide but, for what its worth, the cynicism IS sold separately.

But let's toss that argument aside for a second. Even if those on-the-fly creative sets weren't sold with their instructions on how to make them, the entire thesis of Lego has always been that you can create what you want (I've been doing it for years before THE LEGO MOVIE released), there was never a hard rule for or against doing it, the film just simply co-opts the instructions vs. creativity and poses it as an argument. And all goes back to the fact that legos are toys, I relate to legos as toys, I relate to STAR WARS as a movie. You don't seem to even acknowledge why 1SO and I are cynical about it - so much of the problems of STAR WARS do appear to it being more of a merchandise platform than how it works as a movie series. Even if it's home made, it still pulled me out of the movie, reminding me that these movies aren't made for themselves, but for merchandise. There's no commentary on this - it's just a flat acknowledgment.

Again, I love the idea behind it. I think actually what would've worked better was if the kids were playing pretend. "I'm Luke Skywalker" "I'm Darth Vader" and acting like they have the force/lightsaber. I think you would agree with that? Regardless of the action figure being homemade or not, it's still a product that's being pushed in our face by the camera. It's still saying, "You need an action figure to play STAR WARS, kids!" And that just pushes merchandise on people. Also, it's silly. These figures are already over advertised just by essence of the movie itself. You don't need more.