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Author Topic: The Last Jedi  (Read 16193 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2017, 03:02:23 PM »
Junior is bae.

The best lightsaber fight is Vader v. all in Rogue One though.
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aewade90

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2017, 03:36:34 PM »
I really don't get the hate for Leia in SPAAAAAACE. Do we need a scene with an explanation of her ability to do that? Do you just need it too look different? It makes sense and it looks cool to me.

It just seems too far-fetched, which is mildly ridiculous considering we have lasers acting like cannonballs and cardboard space bombers. I know that it's silly to go "space doesn't work that way!" in my space wizards franchise, but it's such a massive jump in terms of what we've come to expect from the character and really stretches the believeability. Leia doesn't need force powers to be a badass, her character is already established as one. Yeah, it makes sense she's got an innate ability with the Force, but to quote another 1970's classic, "that's much too vulgar a display of power, Karras."

Rewatching this last night, the casino sequence was a lot shorter the second time around but still feels unnecessary. The bombers at the start make zero sense whatsoever (again, space doesn't work that way), but having recently watched Twelve O'Clock High and the franchises' larger homage to WW2 film for dogfights, I'm OK with it. I still can't parse the timeline quite right, either, but the throne room fight and hyperspace punch are simply blockbuster perfection that I'm having trouble thinking of better moments that have come from Hollywood this year.

Also of interesting note, as Leia supermans herself back to the ship, she crosses through a hologram of Snoke's ship in a very similar way to Holdo eventually does, which seems to be a nice bit of foreshadowing. I also started wondering why Ackbar himself couldn't have done that (if he had survived, at least), but then realised (probably much the same as Disney did) that having a character named Ackbah do a suicide run might have been a bit on the nose.

philip918

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2017, 04:17:21 PM »
The Highs:

Red Room Duel - thrilling stuff. Great combination of choreography, a feeling of improvisation, and grit.

Rose - fun and passionate and a bit revolutionary. Loved her. But that kiss at the end tho...

Hyperspace punch - a truly breathtaking moment. Gorgeous and epic.

The shot of Leia, lost in thought, wearing her badass cloak.

Luke Skywalker - this could have gone wrong in so many ways. Too cheesy, too cynical, too inconsequential. But they struck a very nice balance for the character and Hamill delivers a strong performance.

Mixed:

The plot scattered between too many storylines. Rey often gets lost in the mix and she's who I wanted to spend the most time with. It's kind of annoying how she really doesn't factor into the finale with Luke at all.

Leia in space - it was Superman redux, but it was also genuinely surprising because I thought for sure that's how they ended up handling Carrie Fisher's passing.

The Lows:

Rose and Fin's storyline. Tonally it felt cartoonish. The Saturday morning kid's show version of Star Wars. But also just silly and lame. Wish the movie had found a way to start with them on the mission already. Their story was too rushed and so plot-focused that I didn't buy her romantic feelings for him at the end, because they hadn't shared enough time between the action to really connect on a deeper level.

Everything on Canto Bight.

Maz Kanata Skype was super cheesy and kicked off the film's weakest storyline.

Poe and Holdo's storyline. Why was secrecy such a priority? There are like 40 people left alive in the resistance. Plus, it was the simplest of plans. I was hoping the "tether" would be something far simpler than a tracking device. A mole, for instance, which would necessitate the secrecy.

The ending. I get the spirit of it, but it just felt so different from the rest of the film. It had the look of a Hasbro toys commercial.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2017, 04:28:56 PM »
I'll write more, and I'm not caught up on the thread yet, but:

RE: Throne Room Battle

What happened to the second trilogy fight style? It was elaborate and elegant, I loved the choreography of the lightsabers dancing against each other. In this new trilogy, it's all brute force and charging the enemy. Kylo shows little to no skill for a guy who's supposed to have had training.
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aewade90

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2017, 05:27:25 PM »
I'll write more, and I'm not caught up on the thread yet, but:

RE: Throne Room Battle

What happened to the second trilogy fight style? It was elaborate and elegant, I loved the choreography of the lightsabers dancing against each other. In this new trilogy, it's all brute force and charging the enemy. Kylo shows little to no skill for a guy who's supposed to have had training.

I think one of the points of Ren is that he has no discipline, despite being trained. As shown by the end of this movie he's quick to rage, and it suits that his fighting style reflects that - he starts off in stances but will quickly turn to brutality. Rey is fighting the same feelings but isn't trained, so it's questionable as to whether it's a conscious decision on her behalf.

TLJ, and in particular the Throne Room, really strikes the balance between the stilted dying/aging honour duels of the Original Trilogy (which Luke lapses from in particular with his final duel with Vader - he batters him to submission in a moment of rage) and the over-choreographed back and forth of the prequels.

Junior

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2017, 06:48:39 PM »
Check out my blog of many topics

“I’m not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!”

1SO

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2017, 10:15:13 PM »
Casino Planet was by far the worst part of the movie. A useless detour that should have been scrubbed out to make space for something better.
I could feel the film losing its audience, but then I remembered a scene in Revenge of the Sith where Obi wan is riding a giant chicken and this isn't that bad. Actually, I don't think it's bad at all, just a different type of adventure. Perhaps the set design needed to be even more outer worldly instead of looking like a place James Bond could walk into.

I thought the Yoda thing was an interesting commentary of Johnson sourcing his movie from the original trilogy to divorce himself from prequel nonsense. I still wish he had used the superior Revenge of the Sith Yoda and not the sock puppet. It makes sense he retains his end of life personality though.
I noticed an interesting mix throughout of old and new school effects. I thought Johnson was mostly clever with using new technology but making shots of things like the Millennium Falcon look much like they did in the original trilogy.

During the gliders scene, I hoped Johnson was going to be bold and kill a main character. That girl feels very jammed into the series and her arc is not strong at all.
When Finn made his run I was thinking that his arc was essentially complete with the defeat of Phasma, so he could be killed.


Is there anything these kids could have done that would not inspire this response?
Unfortunately no. This is Star Wars and Disney and we don't live in a vacuum. Perhaps if the scene wasn't filmed like a commercial for the new Star Wars land Disney is building, but as it plays now it's as blatant a commercial as the product placement in Batman & Robin.



-New Creatures (Porgs)
-Comedy - I absolutely hate the dumb comedy and absolutely love the smart. Examples -- Dumb equals the sea cows. Smart equals Luke flicking dust off his shoulder.
I like the Porgs, but I like the Crystal Foxes even more.
Luke flicking the dust is a moment similar to him tossing the lightsaber. If you're into these films for the majesty, these jokes are not welcome. They take out a lot of air, much like most of Ragnarok. However, I don't take these films that seriously so I found it very funny.


The best lightsaber fight is Vader v. all in Rogue One though.
All previous lightsaber fights were closer to sword battles in pirate movies. The throne room is the first time it played more like a classic samurai action film. The Vader scene is uber-cool, but there are some jaw-drop moves in that throne room.

pixote

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2017, 04:30:10 AM »
pixote saw this movie before me and predicted that I would hate it. While it is true that The Last Jedi is an indulgent movie and does a lot of the kind of stuff I didn’t like in the earlier films, it turns out that my problems with those earlier films wasn’t with the content but rather the execution.

My actual prediction (not fully expressed) was that you'd love the new film, and the seemingly irreconcilable contradiction vis-à-vis your opinion of the earlier movies would drive me to drink.

Bottoms up.

pixote
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 04:31:55 AM by pixote »
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2017, 05:26:50 AM »
Agreed on Traitor's arc and killing him off. He has essentially been useless to the plot and the series in general.

As I heard someone mention the Chinese market yesterday, I realised why Rose was there at all, and I was gutted. If they wanted to include a Chinese character they should have introduced her in Ep. VII and made her a real person. Also, there are no alien main characters in this trilogy. Or even secondary. Maz is the closest thing we have to that.

The fights in the OT were very kinetic and they became a sort of ballet in the prequels, which I really enjoyed. It made sense to me to use the sabers that way when fighting against other force users. The RO scene has lots of use of the force, which most other fights sorely lack. The throne sequence only uses it to move the sabers around. Surely Kylo could have pushed a couple of guards back?
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2017, 06:34:51 AM »
Since we're doing this.

The Highs:

- The gorgeous, sublime cinematography and art direction and the many fantastic shots and sets
- Rey + Kylo Connection
- Snoke’s Death and how subversive it was
- Red Room Showdown
- Hyperspace Punch!
- Getting a feel for the rebellion beyond just the triumvirate of main characters
- The Porgs
- Rey's family reveal that eschews the easy, predictable way this could have gone and makes Kylo the resident Skywalker
- A villain I can believe in, finally.
- Emotionally complex characters!
- The mythology gets expanded without retconning anything.
- Johnson repeatedly giving the finger to Abrams, and Lucas, to a lesser extent. 
- Extensive use of the Force by a character, finally.
- This movie has ideas and is about something.
- Getting rid of Phasma.
- Poe being the MVP.

Mixed:

- The Humour: Some of it was jarring and made a tonal mess of the surrounding scenes, like the on hold scene, which has no place in a movie like this, but other jokes were welcome additions to the SW formula. I don't want this series to start following the MCU template too.
- Rose (a mostly realised character but the entire subplot is pointless)
- Hux.
- Leia. I can take or leave the Superman scene, but there was a point there where I thought if they let her die there it would have made a perfect tribute. Now they've got to figure out what to do with her character.
- No Luke kicking someone's ass with his sick Master Jedi skills scene.
- The opening. The execution is great but it feels out of place in a SW episode movie. I could totally see it in a spin off, but something jarred in me as I was watching it. It's mostly great though. Maybe upon rewatch.
- The last scene. It was very effective, but SW has never been about the little guys, and this shift in perspective doesn't fit with the rest of the movie. Also true of all the stuff Rose says.

The Lows:

- The pointless casino planet subplot and everything that happens to Finn in general. He has a good arc but it is constructed around events that serve no purpose most of the time.
- The Space Dern v. Poe subplot is not very smart and constitutes a further loss of time.
- I'm pretty sure the timeline doesn't make sense.
- Maz Kanata Skype call was useless
- How good Rey is at using her powers and handling a lightsaber is even more egregious here.
- Could have used two lines about who Snoke is.
- We never learn what the third lesson is.
- I don't trust Abrams to follow up.

Hope to put all of this into a review after I rewatch it tonight.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 06:37:02 AM by DarkeningHumour »
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