Author Topic: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017  (Read 664 times)

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2018, 06:26:26 PM »
There is nothing new under the sun.

AliceGuyBlache

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2018, 06:29:01 PM »
No, I'm not saying anything about who the main character is as a person, but how these men write their main female characters to serve as blank vessels void of personality outside of their total and utter devotion to their man.
This reads like my reaction to The Beguiled, written by Sofia Coppola.
To me, the entire film is about female desire, not devotion.

Plus, I think that Javier Bardem in mother! is just as much a vessel for the tortured male artist as Lawrence is for the artistic muse. They're function as archetypes in this vision of how art functions and the film aligns us with the muse, not the male artist. I think the gender politics critique is simply a fundamental failure to understand the genre mother! functions within. None of the characters are supposed to be complex portraits and the characters serve more to say something about art and creation than they are supposed to depict life as the director sees it.

So screw authentic characterization in exchange for 100% commitment to genre conventions? Regardless, I have yet to hear someone tell me exactly what genre mother! is. Some say horror, some say thriller, some say surreal melodrama - the whole appeal of the film is that it transcends genre, so I don't know what you're leaning mother! on.

I never said the male artist isn't a detailed character (that's not my point) and to throw out gender critique because they're both hollow archetypes is bizarre. Regardless of the lack of character detail, she's still made to be subservient and is routinely abused by him, so to say that gender critique can't come in at all is not only bizarre but problematic in your approach to the film. How can you not see the film in a specifically gender critical way? The film is called mother!

sdb_1970

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 03:36:49 PM »
Great show, as usual, BUT ... it was disappointing to hear the unmitigated piling on re The Florida Project, which was, by far, the biggest disappointment of 2017.  Without going into the eye-rolling final shot, to me and my significant other, the entire film came across as poverty porn dressed up with indie affectation and never once did we sense that the ridiculously overpraised Brooklynn Prince was unaware of the camera, who took us out of the movie from the very first moment.  (As for all the references to the Little Rascals? Um, no, sorry.)
I say this with no snark or condescension intended - but maybe the most, let's say, misguided take I've heard all year. As in disagree strongly with everything you express here.

The Florida Project is a pretty critic-proof film.  That is, I would argue, based on my own experience from 25+ years of reading film reviews and criticism, that, due to the degree of agreeability of the their socio-plolitical conveyances, certain types of films get a pass from critics (as a group, without questioning any individual critic’s conscious motives) with respect to formal weaknesses.  I really enjoyed Tangerine (best Christmas movie of the last decade), so I’m not necessarily down on Sean Baker’s General approach to filmmaking; but in terms of casting choices, drawing out effective performances, and selling a Hail Mary ending like that, IMHO, The Florida Project is getting a pass that I don’t think other types of films would.  To quote a member of the filmspotting advisory board who put it better to me than I could to you: “My friend and I commented afterwards to each other that it seems like Sean Baker doesn’t have kids” and “I really didn’t think the Little Rascals thing came through either - the film would’ve needed to be more stylized.”  All of that said, I LOVE arguing, so if you ever find yourself in ATX, I’d love to run through the first 10 minutes of this film and articulate exactly what I’m talking about (tacos and beers on me).   😎

Perhaps not surprisingly, the Three Billboards discussion was definitely my favorite part of the show - that is NOT among the 2017 films that I would’ve expected to generate that level of disagreement.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:38:48 PM by sdb_1970 »
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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2018, 08:38:30 PM »
This thread is going to be interesting when Three Billboards receives 4(ish) Oscar nominations including Best Original Screenplay.

And wins multiple Golden Globes.

Adam

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2018, 05:55:51 PM »
Alice, Josh and I responded to you re: Thread on #664.
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dheaton

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »
I'm a little late to the party here, but I figured that I'd weigh in on the two-part "Best of 2017" show. First of all, this is among my favorite podcasts of the year. I love hearing from Michael Phillips any time that he's on Filmspotting, and he's always great on the year-end recap. Tasha Robinson is also an excellent guest. Both were a lot of fun on this podcast and had smart insights.

It might just be because I'm used to the straight-up countdown, but I wasn't a huge fan of the new approach. What I like about the typical format is the surprise of learning about hidden gems right up to the end. The new structure put the focus on the consensus films, and I understand why you did it that way (less repetition too), but it felt less novel in a way. I basically knew what would show up in the final hour, and while the discussions were top-notch, it got a little predictable overall.

It's cool to see the tinkering with the format, so I'd love to see more adjustments down the road. This one just didn't make it better for me.
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jdc

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2018, 07:03:53 PM »
I preferred the new format, allowing everybody to discuss the films in common at the same time works well.  I also noticed that /Filmcast did something similar but different way. They just went from 10 to 1, but if my 10 was Adam's one, I'd skip revealing my number ten and wait to the round of 9.  Only when it got the person that had it ranked highest, did everybody talk about the common films on the list. Or it was something like that.

Either way, I preferred the new formats that were used.
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sdb_1970

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2018, 12:00:07 PM »
I also noticed that /Filmcast did something similar but different way. They just went from 10 to 1, but if my 10 was Adam's one, I'd skip revealing my number ten and wait to the round of 9.  Only when it got the person that had it ranked highest, did everybody talk about the common films on the list. Or it was something like that.

I prefer that approach.
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Adam

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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2018, 01:04:30 PM »
I also noticed that /Filmcast did something similar but different way. They just went from 10 to 1, but if my 10 was Adam's one, I'd skip revealing my number ten and wait to the round of 9.  Only when it got the person that had it ranked highest, did everybody talk about the common films on the list. Or it was something like that.

I prefer that approach.
We are considering it. Though I also think there's something cumbersome about a bunch of people saying "We're skipping mine until later" repeatedly.
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Re: #662: (Pt. 2) Top 10 Films of 2017
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2018, 06:48:30 PM »
Just remembered...did Josh ever get around to Sandy Wexler?