Author Topic: Phantom Thread  (Read 1868 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 12:17:50 PM »
I should not have expected a PTA movie to be an easy thing to digest. It did not make it easy to vote for the Filmspots.

My first thoughts are that this falls into the The Master category of PTA movies, which is unfortunate, because it is the category of movies I have trouble connecting with and grasping. I had an almost immediate and strong connection with all his other movies bar Hard 8 (and perhaps Inherent Vice, which I had to rewatch).

Bloody gorgeous though.

Well done PTA, you've really outdone yourself here. I thought you made bad films with There Will Be Blood and The Master, but wow is this obnoxiously bad. I mean, obviously what I thought the world needed most was the story of a tormented genius for whom all those around him are subjegated to his whims at their own cost because that's just the price of genius. Into that void steps Alma. I'm not sure when the charming part of the film was that gets her on the hook, but on the hook she falls.

Of course, if it seemed problematic on gender grounds when she was subject to his emotional abuse, her enhanced measures to bring him under her whims (arguably at cost of his genius) might be even worse. I mean, I guess there's some mommy issues/kink aspect that gives the whole tale a happy (?) ending but still, this was a real drag for me.

Hmm, my first sentiment was that Alma was an annoying passive aggressive immature woman who was in the wrong every time they had an argument. That was until things progressed into another direction.

I would recommend the Next Picture Show's episode on the movie, Bondo. It might reframe it in a more positive view for you (I still have to listen to the Filmspotting episode).

Plus, I really didn't come here to pick fights

Considering your first sentence here was a dismissal of Bondo's post, I would suggest you are not very good at it.

I keep hoping people start a fight here so I have reason to delete this whole conversation. And then people will ask where the thread went, and I'll be like, "What'd you expect? It was a phantom thread."

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fredf7

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2018, 11:15:15 AM »
Call me unimaginative, but when a movie depends on a plot development involving a woman poisoning her lover almost to death so that she can nurse him back to health and he will realize how much he needs her--and then doing it again, with his knowledge and acquiescence--that just takes me out of the film and makes me wonder if this is a serious picture or an SNL skit.  Do people actually behave this way>?  Or are we supposed to overlook--or find meaning in-- the absurdity b/c PTA is a "genius"?  Guess I just couldn't play along.  But would appreciate enlightenment on this point from anyone here.

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2018, 01:57:03 PM »
Yes they can behave that way in real life.
If you can imagine it and then fetishize it, then I guarantee that it exists.
To me, PT falls into the same category as Eyes Wide Shut. Itís a film ostensibly about a relationship but, itís really a placemarker for how some power relationships manifest within the boundaries of love, or whatís perceived by society as love.
In other words, there are some CINECAST!ed up ways that people go about creating a workable relationship for themselves. Everyoneís love language is different and there might actually be someone who only feels loved when their significant other nurtures them back from a life or death event after mentally abusing them to half heartedly try to kill them. Symbolic actions matter to some.
Itís not my thing but who am I to judge?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 02:09:41 AM by St. Martin the Bald »
Hey, nice marmot!

oldkid

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 12:05:04 AM »
Yes they can behave that way in real life.
If you can imagine it and then fetishize it, then I guarantee that it exists.
To me, PT falls into the same category as Eyes Wide Shut. Itís a film ostensibly about a relationship but, itís a placemarker for how some power relationships manifest within the boundaries of love, or whatís perceived by society as love.
In other words, there are some CINECAST!ed up ways that people go about creating a workable relationship for themselves. Everyoneís love language is different and there might actually be someone who only feels loved when their significant other nurtures them back from a life or death event after mentally abusing them to half heartedly try to kill them. Symbolic actions matter to some.
Itís not my thing but who am I to judge?

This.  I have nothing else to add.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 03:42:05 AM »
I don't believe anyone loves me unless they're actively trying to kill me.
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St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2018, 08:29:03 AM »
Itís a good rule of thumb.
Hey, nice marmot!

oldkid

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2018, 09:14:43 AM »
I don't believe anyone loves me unless they're actively trying to kill me.

At least you know they understand you.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

Will

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2018, 12:04:27 AM »
Itís not my thing but who am I to judge?

Don't feel like the power dynamics that occur in relationships should be protected from scrutiny. The "if it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality is precisely the mentality that keeps people in abusive relationships and those relationships do tend to prove corrosive to other people's lives outside the relationship as well. This film never suggests for a second that anyone else could be possibly affected because of the immense privilege these two characters have (which is never addressed) that allows them to live in such a private state, but it's nevertheless a bad mentality to gain from a film - "well as long as the abuse is consented to, who cares, right?" But again, the lack of psychology to Alma's character fails to give us a contextual reason as to why she is like this way. She just is in love with Woodcock and will do anything for him. That just makes the film ever so shallow and ultimately forgettable - in my opinion. It doesn't give me anything to truly ever learn about Alma which renders her without an arc or a personality. Good thing Vicky Krieps is a good actress for such a thankless role.

Will

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2018, 12:07:05 AM »
It wasn't a complete slog but I must say I wasn't thrilled that these were the characters I was going to be stuck with for the duration. An unpleasant genius and the woman who inexplicably can't seem to live without him. One is as frustrating as the other. Their existence and the film's decision to focus on them gives rise to two questions: Why is he unpleasant, and why does she love him. Two questions which may share one answer.

Anyways, you do what you can over the course of a couple of hours. You study the characters, watch their reactions... it's all very interesting, I'm sure.

Behold! Two passive aggressive people try to have an argument!
"I purposesly gave you butter!"
"I purposely ignored your giving me butter!"

It truth these were the highlights of the film for me. Noisy tea pouring, noisy bread buttering, getting lectured about backgammon... these two deserve each other. Those parts made me laugh.

There are moments when I almost came around to the point of rooting for the characters. I thought, if they could just have a breakthrough of some sort they might be less unhappy. But that went away when I realized they weren't unhappy. This is actually just them. They don't change, they just come to an understanding. Good for them. Happy ending.

5/10

This is a pretty great review.

smirnoff

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Re: Phantom Thread
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 07:34:01 PM »