Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 25087 times)

smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2018, 12:55:18 AM »
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (William Shatner, 1989)        2/10

"Be one with the horse"

You wouldn't be blamed for having to report to sick bay upon hearing that line. For myself I'll add it to the ever growing heap of one-liners that fail spectacularly. The joke is a call back to something Spock says earlier in the film. It's hard to take these lines when they come along. Particularly when the movie is already a boring mess. Where are the good moments in this film? My scanners aren't picking up anything. I like the script's ambition, but not it's methods. What a dull journey finding god turned out to be. The whole thing was just stale.

After this movie I'm ready for this crew to officially retire. They feel retired anyways. They probably would be but outside circumstances keep pulling them back onto the bridge of the Enterprise. The film starts with Bones, Spock and Kirk all out camping together. It makes you wonder if that's realistic. I can see these characters spending time together in off-hours aboard the confines of a ship, but would they really spend vacation time together too? The film touches ever so slightly on the effects that existence aboard a starship has on one's social life, and how the crew becomes like family. But I don't know... aren't they sick of each other? I'm kind of sick of them.

I really don't have a favourite character at this point, or even a character I strongly like. I'm just indifferent really. And that's unusual in my experience when you have so many personalities to chose from. But really, who stands out? Who makes me smile every time they speak? Nobody. I'm starting to turn against them all for being so boring. My favourite character is now the guy from the previous film with the foo-man-chu. At least he didn't say anything annoying.

I like when Sybok jumped into the god bubble and went away. I only wish he'd done it sooner in the film. It made me think of the part in A Few Good Men when Demi Moore is giving Cruise a hard time because he puts up a fuss about having to ride on a boat, despite being a Navy officer. And he responds to the driver who is chuckling, "nobody likes her very much". That's how I felt about Sybok.

Jerry Goldsmith makes a return to the series, and not a bad one at that. His theme for the Klingon's in this movie is one of the only notworthy bits of scoring I can think of outside of the title sequence. I can't really find a great snippet of it, but it's used well in the film.

All in all this crew is ready to be put out to pasture. Be one with the horse indeed.

Corndog

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2018, 07:42:12 AM »
Mostly agree, although I've come to love the characters at least somewhat, but was definitely disappointed in their turn here. None of them are interesting here, which is disappointing coming off of The Voyage Home where each was given some time to shine. The most annoying thing about this series to this point is its inconsistency. And I mostly agree it appears time to put them to pasture, which is reassuring since there is only one film remaining. I will be interested to transition to The Next Generation and hopefully see some freshness in the series with some new faces and personalities.
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smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2018, 10:24:47 PM »
Just a general question, and this will apply to all the different Star Trek's, and really a lot of franchises out there. At what point does a series letting its hair down, so to speak, become too much of a good thing?

Star Trek as I have known it has always been a serious show at it's core. Starfleet is a quasi-military branch of the Federation. It is has very particular principles, the most important being the Prime Directive of non-interference. Starfleet has ranks, and promotes discipline. The stakes are high, and those serving are risking their lives. In watching the show it comes to be an organization you respect, just as the characters do. It is an establishment and position that has an air of something important. It represents the best of humanity.

And yet in the course of doing their duties it is fun to get to know the people beneath the uniforms. Seeing Kirk's home on Earth for instance is a rare and intimate look at the "off-duty" side of the man. The effect is that you warm to the character.

But when do these "moments" begin to undermine the dignity of the people and institution you have come to respect? When the crew decides the best way to take retrieve 3 hostages from a force of unknown size is to commandeer a bunch of horses and perform a cavalry charge?

I'm going to join you Corndog in ragging on Shatner the director, because I think what we have here is something of a vanity project. Shatner is a known horse lover, and what does he do with his first shot at directing? Adds a bunch of horse back riding. And then the Kirk mountain climbing stuff. It's too much. In some ways it's nice to see the character so loose, but something is lost in this movie.

pixote

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2018, 11:50:19 PM »
V is the one Trek film I haven’t seen because a friend made me promise not to waste my time on it.

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oldkid

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2018, 02:10:21 AM »
Quote
At what point does a series letting its hair down, so to speak, become too much of a good thing?

That's a good question. I think it edged on that in The Voyage Home, but certainly the Shatnerfest of V goes over the line. I do hope you guys watch Galaxy Quest, because that's the film that walks the line between silly and serious quite well.  And First Contact as well.

Frankly, I like The Next Generation series (less so the film) because beginning with the second season, the series embraces the serious.  A bit of serious science ideas mixed in with the silly and some serious ideas mixed in with the silly comedy.  I think that's the balance I prefer.  Over the top silly is great, as long as it remains true to the characters and have some solid ideas behind it.  Much like the rule of fantasy: Remain consistent within the universe you've created but within that universe you can do whatever you want. The Voyage Home broke a couple universe rules and Final Frontier was the Star Trek universe through the eyes of Kirk, which no one asked for. 
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

Corndog

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2018, 07:19:32 AM »
Star trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (Nicholas Meyer, 1991)

As predicted, the last and final film of the original series is a good one. It should be no surprise then at this point that Nicholas Meyer is the common thread through the three good movies, while being noticeably absent from the three bad ones (I actually didn’t mind The Search for Spock, so bad would be too harsh for that one, though it doesn’t measure up to the other three). I’m not sure why he kept coming in and out of having his hand involved in this series, but I wish he would have stayed. It’s clear to me now that he was just concerned with coming up with good stories that fit into the Star Trek universe. Of course, with this being the last of the original series, it’s a little bittersweet coming to the end of it all. There are still The Next Generation and Reboot series films to discover, but The Undiscovered Country does mark the closing of one chapter of the saga, and with it comes a bit of reflection.

One thing The Undiscovered Country does well is recognize that the series’ time with the original crew is coming to a close, but does it without making it overly sentimental about it. Captain Kirk, Scotty and Bones are at Starfleet headquarters, on the eve of retirement, but Spock decides to volunteer the crew for the task of escorting a diplomatic Klingon party to a special peace conference, where the Kilingon’s hope to win the sympathy of Starfleet in order to for their species to survive after a disaster on their home planet which threatens their very existence. After dining with Kirk and his crew after a rendezvous, the Klingon vessel is fired upon, and the diplomatic Chancellor killed. This egregious act kicks off a conspiracy within Starfleet to incite and trap the Klingon, as some dissenters of peace view the current condition one which proves to be the perfect opportunity to decimate the notoriously violent Klingons.

I’ve already commented on how I love that Star Trek is adaptable to various different genres while being able to stay within its science fiction lane. The Undiscovered Country continues that tradition by essentially being a political thriller by building very real stakes at the heart of the narrative. Starfleet, at least to me in my limited exposure to the organization, is a group meant to explore the universe peacefully, to better humankind by learning and discovering, not by battle and conquest. So this mission for peace is right in line with that sentiment, even if it is with the Klingon, whom Kirk swears he will never be able to trust after they killed his son (which is such a small part of this series that it’s hardly a believable reason; instead, I buy that the Klingon are not trustworthy simply based on reputation and wish they would have left the dead son motivation out of it altogether). What then unfolds is a very taught murder/mystery with galactic political implications and as such plays pretty fun and also pretty serious, a deadly combination.

There are more than a few sequences here which are top notch, including the dinner between the Klingon and crew of Enterprise, which features some fumbled manners and heated debate. It shows the Klingon in a positive light, capable of civil discourse and discussion. This is extremely important to believing that they are capable of peace, otherwise the conspiracy falls apart. But I also loved the sort of back and forth which took place directly before and after this encounter. The two parties very clearly do not care for each other, which affords the crew some quippy one liners. There is also a sort of fun sequence inside a well thought out prison planet, and an assassination attempt akin to some of the good political thrillers from the decades previous. But more than a series of fun sequences, the film features strong characters too.

I was admittedly disappointed when the film begins and ends without Sulu on the Enterprise, but I suppose I can forgive the film that since he is given command of his own ship, the Excelsior, and comes to the rescue and aid of the Enterprise. I’ve always liked Sulu and felt he is far too often underutilized, especially given George Takei’s charisma. Over the past six films I must admit I have become quite connected with the crew, some more than others. Of course characters like Chekov, Sulu and Uhura are often sidelined and don’t get much time on screen. I still enjoyed them nonetheless. Even Scotty to some extent is this way. But Bones, Spock and Kirk are the three stars of the show, and I tend to like them to varying degrees. Shatner at the very least has the arrogance and confidence to play Kirk as we know him. His acting chops are lacking, and I hardly ever enjoyed his performances, but I can still appreciate Kirk the character. Bones as the sidekick works best when he is interacting with both Kirk and Spock. His humor is his best trait and DeForest Kelley is fairly consistent in his portrayal.

Spock on the other hand is easily the best character in the series for me. Leonard Nimoy gives him just enough personality underneath his calculated delivery, and obviously as the only non-human main crew member, his character is afforded the most unique personality traits. That he is half-human only adds to the intrigue in how he reacts to certain things. Essentially, what I most got out of watching these six films was that I can totally buy into the fandom on display for the brand and especially the original cast. I can see how people had become attached, how they geeked out over the actors, the characters, their adventures. Credit goes to Gene Roddenberry of course, who developed the original series, but this series of films is quite good, even for a new fan like myself who is getting to know the crew for the first time. I can see how repeated viewings of any or all the films would be a welcome chance to spend more time with these people, on these adventures.

But back to the film at hand a little bit, I loved the conflict at the center of the film. I loved how Kirk is forced to face his nemesis the Klingon, forced to behave, and yet the mystery that unfolds is quite good. I can’t say the reveal is all that surprising, but the whodunit aspect of the story certainly carries the tension and suspense through out most of the film. Christopher Plummer was surprising to see turn up as the main villain as well. I can’t say Plummer is the type I would expect in a role like this, but he fits fairly well as the Shakespeare reciting Klingon. Kim Cattrall is in the same boat as a surprise, perhaps because I know her as Samantha from Sex and the City, but she actually works here too. Generally, The Undiscovered Country, what with its eyes to the future, peace, political harmony, is a pleasant surprise all around and a fitting close to the original series of films. I look forward to picking up with the new crew and new adventures, but make no mistake, this crew will be missed, even if their tenure in the series was often hit or miss along the way.

★★★ - Liked It



Original Series ranking:
1. The Voyage Home
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. The Search for Spock
5. The Motion Picture
6. The Final Frontier
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 07:21:17 AM by Corndog »
"Time is the speed at which the past decays."

smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2018, 10:49:15 AM »
You know Star Trek, just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and make a film like this...

AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!



Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (Nicholas Meyer, 1991)        9/10

Oh man, almost everything is fixed or improved in this film. It's one strong scene after another and there are highlights aplenty. I hardly know where to begin. Finally a plot worthy of the franchise! Conspiracy, tactics, and at long last diplomacy!  And how elegantly the story begins! Far enough in the future to have shaken off the effects of the previous film, we open to a shot of Sulu, now captain of the the USS Excelsior, sipping a cup of tea from a Starfleet teacup. I am not accustomed to food and drink being consumed on the bridge of a starship, however as captain I suppose that is his prerogative. I welcomed the appearance of something so refined as a cup of tea being associated with Star Trek. With this one shot the dignity of the franchise is restored and it warms my heart as any good cup of tea should.


The idyllic moment only lasts for a single sip as the Excelsior is smashed hard by a rogue wave of energy, throwing the crew about the bridge in the usual Star Trek fasion. :)) But Sulu immediately demonstrates his prowess as a captain. With the ship spinning out of control, and drawing on his years as a helsman, he confidently orders the ship's starboard thrusters be activated so as to turn the ship into the wave. Shortly thereafter they emerge from the storm and have a chance to assess the situation.

The blastwave emminated from a moon called Praxis within Klingon territory, and the moon itself has almost entirely been destoryed. Praxis is a key energy production facility for the Klingon empire, so under the assumption that there's been an manufacturing accident Sulu sends a message offering assistance. Very suspiciously they receive back a message from the Klingons that's pretty well summed up by this gif.


The plot thickens!

So commences a very complex political situation that sees the Klingons forced to abandon their territory due to contamination and being economically crippled. Given their situation Klingon high command seeks an end to hostilities with the Federation and refuge within their territory. Feelings are mixed on boths side. Within the Federation there is skepticism about letting the Klingons into their territory given their past, however others are ready to embrace a long overdue peace in whatever form they can have it. And as for the Klingons, it is not surprising that there is a contingent which would prefer to go down fighting... however that group appears to be the minority. Romulan and Vulcan ambassadors weigh in too. There are many voices and many good arguments made. It's just the kind of delicate situation which puts Starfleet principles to the test.

The diversity of the Klingon culture is shown more fully in this film than it has been in the past. Instead of playing the rabid enemy for the umpteenth time, single-minded in their aggression, we see other parts of the culture. A culture with lawful institutions, and where honour may be found both on and off the battlefield. By human standards they may still seem like a hyper-agressive and unfriendly race, but relative to what we have seen of them up to this point these additional nuances add a degree of richness which I think their portrayal has lacked until now.


There are many tiny highlights within the film. Not the least of which is spotting familiar faces in the auxiliary cast. Chris Plummer playing the bald Klingon with an eyepatch riveted to his face was enjoyable. His atypical appearance for a Klingon male went hand in had with the film's efforts to broaden the Klingon culture. And Star Trek, with it's predilection for quoting famous literary works, found a suitable orator in Plummer. And  then there's Kurtwood Smith, appearaning to be the same race as that random bridge officer with the fu-manchu in a previous film. He plays the Federation President. I like that the film gives a character (and actor) who would normally play a villian such an unlikely role. And last and probably least, Christian Slater appears in one brief scene. He's fine, it's just that he's so distinctive that the scene is over before you have time to get over the fact Christian Slater randomly popped up in your Star Trek movie.

It was a complete shock when I saw Michael Dorn's name in the opening credits. Huh? What? Did I start the right movie? Am I about to see a Next Generation character in an Original Series movie? I had not anticipated a cross over to occur so soon! Given that he got a mention in the opening credits I knew it would be more than just a background role. It was very exciting waiting for him to turn up. I would never have guessed he would appear in role of a Defense Attourney, or that we would be witness to a Klingon trial for that matter. And when the judge referred to him as Colonel Worf, I thought "it really is him then". What a fascinating bit of pre-history for a character I thought I knew so well. I'm not going to fret over any possible continuity problems that introducing him here presents, it was just good to see Worf.

Going back to our crew, Sulu wasn't the only officer to distinguish himself. Uhura, in a rare moment where she's allowed to do more than just relay communications, suggests a solution in a critical moment regarding how they might attack a cloaked ship. And it works. Sadly though the film later undermines Uhura's character by choosing to play a scene for comedy that would've been a perfect opportunity to show her strengths as commications officer. At one point the Enterprise needs to pass itself off as a Klingon ship by responding to a Klingon radio message. The universal translator is down and everyone is scrambling to try and come up with the correct Klingon words. Uhura gets on the radio and in very broken Klingon blunders her way through a response. The joke is seeing a human trying to speak such a unusual language. ::) But it would've been so great to see Uhura simply be like "I got this" and bust out some fluent Klingonese. So while this film is much more professional than the last few, it doesn't dispense with the obvious gags entirely. Had any of them actually been funny I suppose I might not complain.

One of the best moments of the film is when Kirk surrenders. It was a decision I didn't see coming at all. But as soon as he did, it struck me how genius it was. It was the kind of bold and difficult choice, made under difficult circumstances, that makes you realize the rank of captain is not merely one of seniority, but also ability. For the first time I felt like I had witnessed the character act in a way that justified his legendary reputation. Awesome moment.

If the film lags at all it does so during Kirk and Bones' imprisonment on the asteroid. It's more of that "fish out of water" material, played mostly for laughs. It's the only sequence about which I don't have anything positive to say. As soon as they are beamed back aboard the Enterprise the film is immediately good again. The entire third act brings everything together with great storytelling. Each thread is revealed and then brought to it's conclusion in a rolling sequence of climaxes. The final battle aboard the ships was a genuine thrill. Awesome moment again. The foiled assassination attempt was good as well. Everything that follows is a worthy and touching send off. 

Of the six original series films I think they definitely saved the best for last. This was great.


Corndog

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2018, 12:00:12 PM »
Glad to see we're mostly on the same page again with this one, with the exception that you seemed to like it even more than me. I found everything you mention as positives and negatives in your review to align with my opinion as well, I just lacked the same amount of enthusiasm for them it would seem.

I really liked how they uncovered yet another style of movie for Star Trek to be, this time as a political, diplomatic thriller, which as you say fits with the series quite well.

Have to strongly agree with the prison planet, that was definitely the least impressive sequence in the film. And I loved Plummer too, even if he seem's like an odd choice. I love how you equate to his casting/performance as the filmmakers expanding the cultural outlook of the Klingon's.

And lastly, Worf. Having almost zero familiarity with TNG, it was not something I picked up on. With TNG starting in 1987 (tv series), this had to of been a conscious decision to include him in this film. Will be interested to see how, if at all, it integrates with TNG movies.
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smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2018, 03:06:13 PM »
There are more than a few sequences here which are top notch, including the dinner between the Klingon and crew of Enterprise, which features some fumbled manners and heated debate. It shows the Klingon in a positive light, capable of civil discourse and discussion. This is extremely important to believing that they are capable of peace, otherwise the conspiracy falls apart. But I also loved the sort of back and forth which took place directly before and after this encounter.

Couldn't agree more. The scene was a definite highlight. I'm glad the scene focused on preserving the tension of the situation and discussing important issues. The stuff about "Klingon table manners" was kept to an appropriate minimum. I feared the scene would devolve into something much sillier but it showed restraint and respect for the integrity of the premise.

I will also credit the score here for it's contribution to the tone. Having now experienced films scored by Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, and Leonard Rosenman, we have a newcomer and imo he outdoes them all. Cliff Eidelman brought a notably darker flavour to the series and I thought it was a big improvement.

Gone are the sequences where tension is communicated through a shrill, horror-like cacophony of strings. Eidelman opts to keep things in a lower register, which is more ominous and favours intensity over anxiety. The complexion of the orchestra is just different... I would call it more modern. Certain instruments can date a score badly... marimbas for example are quite frequently layered into the previous scores to punctuate moments of action. They are kept to a minimum in ST:VI. More broadly I would say Eidelman's score has the sensibilites of an dramatic action film, where the previous scores tended towards something airier, like a swashbuckling adventure. It probably has as much to do with the trends of the times in which the films were made as it does who scored them, but all the same I liked this score best.

Quote
Spock on the other hand is easily the best character in the series for me. Leonard Nimoy gives him just enough personality underneath his calculated delivery, and obviously as the only non-human main crew member, his character is afforded the most unique personality traits. That he is half-human only adds to the intrigue in how he reacts to certain things.

It was quite a shock when he slapped the gun out of Valeris' hand! Besides putting people in comas with his Vulcan death-grip (or whatever it's called), I think this is the only time we see Spock get physical in these films. I would say it was justified. :)

pixote

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2018, 04:26:53 PM »
Undiscovered Country would be even better if David Warner asked Kirk how many lights he saw.

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