Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 25095 times)

pixote

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2018, 02:00:05 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu3qDNnPKSs

I was watching this episode last night and concluded that this scene represented Marina Sirtis' finest moment as Troi.

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1SO

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2018, 11:31:45 PM »
I suppose what I'm saying is let's wait until Nemesis to determine whether I prefer the original series to The Next Generation,
Oh man. That's like waiting on Die Another Day before you know how you feel about Brosnan as Bond.


I hate to rag on a movie for feeling like a TV show, especially when in this case it is a TV show, but man did this feel like a TV show, in a bad way. The production values, the characters, the story line. It all felt like small ball to me and it sunk the film as a result.

Of course I have the luxury of watching these films in close succession, but what did people have to think back when they were originally released I wonder?
That's it exactly. Because of First Contact, I watched this one Friday night in the theater. The opening with Data was great, but then it quickly felt like I was watching a two-parter on the big screen. It's weirdly uncinematic. The obvious guilty party is director Jonathan Frakes, but he's also responsible for First Contact and had done some of the best episodes of the TV Series.

Corndog

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2018, 07:23:41 AM »
I suppose what I'm saying is let's wait until Nemesis to determine whether I prefer the original series to The Next Generation,
Oh man. That's like waiting on Die Another Day before you know how you feel about Brosnan as Bond.

I think I mostly meant that evaluating the two right now it is very close, so Nemesis could serve as the tie breaker in this case. I've made up my mind on TNG, and I like it, quiet a bit, but I also have the luxury of one more film to help me use to compare to the original series.
"Time is the speed at which the past decays."

smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2018, 09:33:32 PM »
Insurrection and Guardians of the Galaxy have a very similar moment. :)

Sandy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #124 on: May 05, 2018, 04:43:15 PM »
Insurrection and Guardians of the Galaxy have a very similar moment. :)

Amazing catch! :))


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu3qDNnPKSs#no

I was watching this episode last night and concluded that this scene represented Marina Sirtis' finest moment as Troi.

pixote

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« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 04:44:53 PM by Sandy »

Sandy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #125 on: May 05, 2018, 06:32:19 PM »
I'm not too late! I watched Insurrection last night to refresh my memory, in hopes I'd catch the thread before you moved on.



"In the event of a water landing, I have been designed to serve as a flotation device." :))

Why is this so funny to me? It's nonsensical, but I laugh still the same. I believe you answered it, smirnoff. These are the people who I watched, for seven years, go through everything together and I know them like the back of my hand, just as they know each other. I didn't even bat an eye when Troi talked to Crusher about her breasts, because they've talked often about much more personal things. Besides, Troi didn't know Data was overhearing her and women say many things they wouldn't in mixed company. :) Worf going through puberty is funny, because he's impervious and is as great to see as him saying the iconic line, "I am not a merry man."

And Donna Murphy! Wow, do I love this quiet character. Too bad they couldn't find a way for her to sing. She is a wonderful mirror to Picard's own journey, since he has lived another long life, besides his current one. He too is an old soul.

It did feel like a TV episode, but an epic one still the same. Having to wait two years between spending time with the crew, it was good to see them again. Maybe if Insurrection went before First Contact, it wouldn't have been as big a disappointment for some. It's hard to follow their pinnacle film, imo. 

There was one moment where I did roll my eyes and say, "Come on!" In the morning, when the townspeople are strolling up a hillside in a long meandering line, they look like they're going to a picnic. Could you be any more casual in your need to survive?! Run!!!!

smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #126 on: May 06, 2018, 01:09:47 AM »
I'm not too late! I watched Insurrection last night to refresh my memory, in hopes I'd catch the thread before you moved on.



"In the event of a water landing, I have been designed to serve as a flotation device." :))

Why is this so funny to me? It's nonsensical, but I laugh still the same. I believe you answered it, smirnoff. These are the people who I watched, for seven years, go through everything together and I know them like the back of my hand, just as they know each other. I didn't even bat an eye when Troi talked to Crusher about her breasts, because they've talked often about much more personal things. Besides, Troi didn't know Data was overhearing her and women say many things they wouldn't in mixed company. :) Worf going through puberty is funny, because he's impervious and is as great to see as him saying the iconic line, "I am not a merry man."

There's nothing funnier to me than a disgruntled Worf.

Quote
And Donna Murphy! Wow, do I love this quiet character. Too bad they couldn't find a way for her to sing. She is a wonderful mirror to Picard's own journey, since he has lived another long life, besides his current one. He too is an old soul.

She has a great vibe. She plays the old soul well.

Quote
There was one moment where I did roll my eyes and say, "Come on!" In the morning, when the townspeople are strolling up a hillside in a long meandering line, they look like they're going to a picnic. Could you be any more casual in your need to survive?! Run!!!!

When 900 years old you reach, move as fast you will not. :)

Corndog

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #127 on: May 07, 2018, 07:31:19 AM »
I'm not too late! I watched Insurrection last night to refresh my memory, in hopes I'd catch the thread before you moved on.

Sandy! I'm glad you joined us for at least one of these films!

I definitely do feel like I am missing some of the experience, having not seen the television series to help build relationships and understanding with these characters. I like them just the same, but I believe you when you say something like Insurrection is just another opportunity to spend time with beloved characters. I did enjoy the Worf puberty bit. It's completely silly, as is much of the film, but I have come to really enjoy Worf. I think he's my favorite.
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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #128 on: May 07, 2018, 07:32:34 AM »
Star Trek: Nemesis (Stuart Baird, 2002)

Coming to the end of The Next Generation movies doesn’t feel nearly as bittersweet as it was to come to the close of the original series, which is a bit of a wonder because I feel as though I have connected a little more with this cast of character than I had with the original. Perhaps the aura of Kirk and Spock still casts a shadow over the likes of Picard, Data, Worf, et al. I can’t place my finger on it, but from top to bottom I found this eclectic group more interesting, and yet their tales less so. Perhaps having two fewer films in the catalog counts against TNG, as it still follows the even/odd popularity theory (to some extent). Perhaps as I got so excited for fresh faces, what truly revealed itself was the simple fact that I do prefer the original series to TNG. I don’t know the answer to these quandaries, but I’m still not disappointed by this journey, even 10 movies deep at this point. I’m a fan of the Star Trek brand, and these films have been a joy to watch, even if they don’t leave a lasting impression.

Nemesis is no different for a variety of reasons. I know it often gets a bad rap by some as a lesser entry into the Star Trek universe, and more specifically The Next Generation universe. First Contact perhaps did more harm than good for The Next Generation, as it was so good that it ultimately overshadows the other films in the series, making them look not quite as good as perhaps they are. Or that’s just my blindness which stems from coming to love and enjoy this group. Insurrection is bad, that much I know. With Nemesis, there is plenty to talk about that could have been better, but it’s not all that bad, is it? I mean it features a young Tom Hardy as the villain! And Ron Perlman as his henchman! And quite honestly, it features a rather unique and very interesting premise which is prime for a fascinating character study and denouement to this chapter of the series.

As the crew of the Enterprise are called to Romulus with the hope of a possible peace, we discover that a coup has taken place, led by none other than Shinzon (Hardy), a Picard clone who is hoping to replace Picard, steal away on the Enterprise and attack Earth. But here, the fascination is less with the plotting of Shinzon and more with the dynamic between he and Picard, as they have much in common. One of the bad things about exploring these films as I have is that I have no experience with the series and the backstories of the characters. I am certain there is much that could be colored in with regard to all the characters if I simply watched the series. But coming to the films fresh, I don’t have that luxury. So as Shinzon and Picard interact, I feel I learned a great deal more about Jean-Luc than I had known to that point. That was the most interesting aspect of this film to me, not the end-of-the-world plot we’ve seen time and again. It’s simply more intriguing this time because it essentially Picard (Shinzon) who is motivated to end the world, even if his experiences are far different than Jean-Luc’s and therefore inform his motives in ways Jean-Luc would never reach.

Where the film once again goes off the rails and loses a great deal of steam is in the finale, which features once more extended sequences of fighting. While the visual effects have come a long way, especially since we were spending time with Kirk and Spock, it doesn’t make these mindless space fights any more palatable as a result, even if they are beautiful (in addition to simply getting to see the beauty of space even when it isn’t serving as the backdrop for battle). Once the film reached this point where the cards were on the table and all that was left for both sides to duke it out, I lost almost complete interest. There was nothing more interesting to figure out, especially since the ending was already known (the good guys aren’t going to lose). The sacrifice of Data came as a shock, but even that wasn’t handled particularly delicately. I wish there had been a more fitting tribute for the character after such heroic actions. It falls flat after such a noble action.

Overall, Star Trek: Nemesis really doesn’t feel like the right film to call a close to The Next Generation series of films. I wanted something more. Something a little better. Not to compare, but The Undiscovered Country felt like the perfect close to the original film series. In fact, First Contact would have been a perfect candidate, but then the film would have had to whimper to that fantastic close. With Nemesis, it feels like just another film in the series, with no foresight for the close to the series. It’s not the worst film, but it just doesn’t quite fit that bill to be the closer either.

As we move on to the reboot series, which includes the only two films I had seen previous to this marathon, I put a bow on TNG, which I would overall classify as a disappointment, though not entire failure. There was enough here I liked, and even if I didn’t love Nemesis or Generations, they weren’t complete trainwrecks, and the whole series contained plenty to like. When all is said and done, First Contact will be the only notable release of the four films, but I will never regret spending time with this crew. I may have even been interested enough to seek out the television series with the hope that spending more time with them might pay dividends greater than the film series.

★★★ - Liked It



The Next Generation series ranking:
1. First Contact
2. Generations
3. Nemesis
4. Insurrection
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:14:11 AM by Corndog »
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smirnoff

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #129 on: May 07, 2018, 10:07:24 AM »
Star Trek: Nemesis (Stuart Baird, 2002)        2/10

What on Earth is this about? Data finds a brother. Picard finds a clone of himself. The clone is staging a coup in the Romulan empire even though he’s not romulan. He tricks Picard into showing up for some reason. There’s also psychic warfare going on between Troi and this other Aliens I can’t remember the name of. And the clone is undergoing some transformation that makes him all veiny. And there’s a weapon being built that would destroy the Federation. I was lost by the end of this movie. I had no idea what everyone was trying to accomplish and it was just about trying not to get blown up.

Shiznon, Shinzon, Shoznin… whatever his name was… not a very good character. The interactions between him and Picard dominate the film but they all fall flat. They’re badly written and make Picard out to be in a kind of daze when dealing with Shonzune early in the film. It’s weird relationship to try and establish and the film doesn’t really seem capable of making it interesting. Also the idea that Shizniz needs some sort of medical operation which requires Picard’s blood or something and that it’s the only way he could survive… it just made the plot too busy. What about this political coup that kicked the film off? There’s too many objectives.  Lastly, Shazzam just isn’t a good looking character. Tom Hardy is too baby-faced for the part, and attempting to cast for a younger version of Picard has ALWAYS been awkward, every time they try it. This a character who grew up as a slave working in a mine and being beaten supposedly… he doesn’t look particularly haggard or strong. And his skin tight Cruella DeVille wardobe does nothing to speak to his history.


Data’s brother is a lousy side plot. They find him in bits and pieces on some random desert planet… I guess it was planted there as a trap. I can’t remember if they ever explain that or not. Either way the interactions with B4 (Data’s brother) are an irritation. Rather than having him be like Data, intelligent but with an androids naivete, he seems incapable of putting basic sentences and ideas together. He doesn’t seem to process and consider things, he just gives dumb answers and acts like a baby. It doesn’t make him endearing or cute, which is what they seemed to be going for, it makes him annoying.

“Hurrr durrr what’s this?”

The second half of the movie is particularly bad. I could hardly stay focused. There’s a battle at one point and they use the Enterprise as a ram. That was novel I guess. What’s particularly galling is that such a poor movie is responsible for killing off one of the best characters. Data’s final moments are touching, but some of the aftermath fails to hit the right notes of mourning and feels badly handled. And Data’s “replacement” is so unsuitable it just adds insult to injury. The film is a bad send off for the TNG crew generally too, this being their final appearance. Usually the mere presence of the TNG crew would be enough for me to enjoy myself but this film is simply unlikable.