Author Topic: Avengers: Infinity War  (Read 2638 times)

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 05:49:27 AM »
I guess the big question is who is really dead and how is Captain Marvel going to save us all? I don't know enough about the character, but I'm sure once her movie comes out it will become clear how time will be reversed. This brings up the really big question I'm burying deep inside this paragraph. It's safe to assume anyone turned to ash will return, but what about Gamora? Can she return? If not can they make a Guardians movie without her or with Nebula filling her role? Seems unlikely and right now I'm thinking that Thanos' soul can be exchanged for Gamora. Loki however is probably dead, and I'm fine with that. His story seems complete.

I'm not okay with it. I was looking forward to seeing him team up with the Avengers and how it would play out. I am not thrilled at seeing one of my three favourite characters be killed of in the first scenes of the movie. I hope he'll be back, if only because I would also like to see the rest of the Asgardians get resurrected. If they undo Thanos' bigger genocide at the end but his genocide of the Asgardians remain it will leave an ashen taste in my mouth. Pun intended.

I don't give a rabbit's ass about Gamora. I am more interested in seeing whether they'll bring Vision back. I agree all the people who turned to ash will come back but I hope they'll keep the stakes high by killing someone off in the second movie, just not Iron Man. Someone mentioned Cap and I'd be okay with him getting permanently unalived.

My prediction is that Strange did something to one of the stones...

Strange's final line indicated to me that when he saw into the futures he realised the only way to beat Thanos would be to let him win at first, for whatever reason.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 05:54:16 AM »
I want to talk about the tone of the movie. The first half of it is the usual Avengers jokey formula, albeit slightly more serious, but all humour disappears around halfway through and things get very dark indeed. Gamora dies, like, for realsies, and Tony nearly gets killed. This is after the movie having opened with the wholesale slaughter of a whole people. This is not your average Marvel movie, this is a brand new gambit and Marvel is taking chances. I like it, even if the humour is why I like the other movies so much.
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The Deer Hunter

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2018, 06:39:53 AM »
I'm assuming Valkyrie is dead and I'm kind of bummed about that. It's like the start of Alien 3 where you learn all that effort from Aliens was for nothing. Thanos wipes out half of civilization, but it seems he's destroyed all but one Asgardian. I wonder if there was a deleted scene where Thanos let Valkyrie escape with half of the people. Maybe when they filmed this they weren't sure how popular the new characters from Ragnarok would be, but they seemed very confident about the Black Panther cast.

Thor mentions that half of the Asgardian's escaped so she's presumably with them. Along with Korg. I wonder if we'll even get another chance to see them again though. Is there a Thor 4?

The biggest laugh in my audience came from the Squidward line and i think what i ended up laughing at the most was the Captain America copying Thor's beard line.

1SO

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2018, 08:54:21 AM »
I want to talk about the tone of the movie. The first half of it is the usual Avengers jokey formula, albeit slightly more serious, but all humour disappears around halfway through and things get very dark indeed. Gamora dies, like, for realsies, and Tony nearly gets killed. This is after the movie having opened with the wholesale slaughter of a whole people. This is not your average Marvel movie, this is a brand new gambit and Marvel is taking chances. I like it, even if the humour is why I like the other movies so much.
I didn't notice that. Spidy, Stark and StarLord remain quippy in their battle with Thanos. Bruce v. Hulk has some laughs. Shuri, that exchange between Cap and Thor followed by Cap and Groot. ("This is my friend, Tree.") I would say Black Panther has a less humorous back half than Avengers 4. Heck, even at the post-credits, Sam Jackson being cut off mid-swear was funny.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2018, 10:26:10 AM »
I want to talk about the tone of the movie. The first half of it is the usual Avengers jokey formula, albeit slightly more serious, but all humour disappears around halfway through and things get very dark indeed. Gamora dies, like, for realsies, and Tony nearly gets killed. This is after the movie having opened with the wholesale slaughter of a whole people. This is not your average Marvel movie, this is a brand new gambit and Marvel is taking chances. I like it, even if the humour is why I like the other movies so much.

I didn't notice that. Spidy, Stark and StarLord remain quippy in their battle with Thanos. Bruce v. Hulk has some laughs. Shuri, that exchange between Cap and Thor followed by Cap and Groot. ("This is my friend, Tree.") I would say Black Panther has a less humorous back half than Avengers 4. Heck, even at the post-credits, Sam Jackson being cut off mid-swear was funny.

Maybe there isn't a complete lack of jokes in the second half/last third but I definitely sensed a diminution compared to the beginning, which had some solid scenes of banter.

On that topic, the movie, as a whole, has a lot let scenes of character interaction and just hanging out, which makes sense considering how action packed it needs to be, but those scenes were what made the other Avengers movies so special, among other things, and I really missed that. It's one of the reasons I struggle with this movie a bit.

I'm assuming Valkyrie is dead and I'm kind of bummed about that. It's like the start of Alien 3 where you learn all that effort from Aliens was for nothing. Thanos wipes out half of civilization, but it seems he's destroyed all but one Asgardian. I wonder if there was a deleted scene where Thanos let Valkyrie escape with half of the people. Maybe when they filmed this they weren't sure how popular the new characters from Ragnarok would be, but they seemed very confident about the Black Panther cast.

Thor mentions that half of the Asgardian's escaped so she's presumably with them.

When does he say this? If they're alive, couldn't they have helped him while he was floating in space?
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The Deer Hunter

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2018, 03:50:04 PM »
I'm assuming Valkyrie is dead and I'm kind of bummed about that. It's like the start of Alien 3 where you learn all that effort from Aliens was for nothing. Thanos wipes out half of civilization, but it seems he's destroyed all but one Asgardian. I wonder if there was a deleted scene where Thanos let Valkyrie escape with half of the people. Maybe when they filmed this they weren't sure how popular the new characters from Ragnarok would be, but they seemed very confident about the Black Panther cast.

Thor mentions that half of the Asgardian's escaped so she's presumably with them.

When does he say this? If they're alive, couldn't they have helped him while he was floating in space?

I forget exactly. He says it to either Groot during their alone time or before the other Guardians leave. My guess is they evacuated to safety beforehand and didn't know what the aftermath was.

Dave the Necrobumper

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 07:44:05 AM »
Are you saying that Thanos's plan is evil or something else?

Evil. Misguided evil but evil nonetheless.
A touch of pathos doesn’t absolve him of his actions.
I try to avoid universal statements but all genocidists are evil. I feel pretty comfortable with that statement.


Thanos is a being with the powers of a God. You are comfortable with the statement that all genocidists are evil, so those who follow the Judaeo-Christian God are followers of an Evil God (I put the Flood as one example of genocide)? Universal statements are troublesome, but so is accepting genocide as not an evil act, always.

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Regarding his plan of killing half of all species, to save all species, is evil; and doing nothing and having whole species die is not evil?

Leaves quite a lot of room for middle ground, if eliminating all living being’s accountability for their choices is your thing.
It seems to me that there would be a less violent way when you have complete power of destruction, creation, life, death, time, knowledge and reality at your disposal.


I agree there is a lot (!!!!) of middle ground and Thanos has set himself on a path and clearly sees deviating from that path as unacceptable. I wonder if at some point in the past, to ensure that he would not 'weaken' his resolve and not complete his 'goal' of 'saving' the universe, he has forced himself not to be moved from the path to not allow arguments to sway him. This blinkered approach did not allow him to use the power he gained to understand there may be a better way. Of course it could be that he saw all the possible paths and genocide was the best path, I do not have the capacity to even scope the size of the research required to determine the best path.

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Going to that old philosophy thought experiment of the Trolley problem. There is a variant where to save 5 people from dying you have to push 1 other person in front of the trolley (killing that person). That would be evil?

The film’s morality code seemed very obvious to me: we don’t trade a life for a life.

Yes they do claim that, yet they could have ended the life of a robot hybrid and saved everyone of the lives Thanos ends up taking. They had an immensely powerful being out to get the stone in Vision's head, a being they should have a very strong idea they would not be able to stop. So are they complicit in what happens? Also their moral code does not go very far, given they kill huge numbers of sentient beings during this film and the previous films. Slaughter on a mass scale is acceptable if it is 'them' not 'us', based on their actions.

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Outside of that, this isn’t a situation that Thanos suddenly found himself thrust into and had to make on the fly. This is a philosophy that he developed, he spent a lifetime pursuing.
Consciously, willfully participating in genocide from planet to planet.
I don’t find the comparison very strong.


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Further if Thanos is evil, when he gets the ultimate power of life and death would he not make the dying as horrible as possible, rather than quick and clean?

Gassing people seemed quick, humane and expedient.
A quick bullet to the head likewise.
Killing people in a neat and tidy and non horrifying manner doesn’t make it any less evil.

I would change that to "Killing people in a neat and tidy and non horrifying manner doesn't stop it from being evil". The reason is that society general grades evil, so 'less evil' is not accurate, because if Thanos killed them after inflicting great pain that would be more evil.

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Just quieter.
And let’s not forget he spent years going around the universe doing it the violent, bloody old fashioned way.
My vote goes with evil.


How is this even a conversation ?  :o

Because it is interesting :)

And because I cannot help myself I ask anyone the following question:

You have the ability to wipe out 50% of Earth's human population it is the only use of this power that is possible, you cannot direct it to kill particular people, you can not pass the power to another person, nor have it taken from you. You can destroy your ability to have the power (and not die yourself). This use is likely to save many species from extinction, of course it may only save one or two species from extinction. Which do you choose?:
A. Destroy the power immediately
B. Deliberate on what you will do
C. Use it immediately

It is a horrible choice as either you kill 3.65Billion people, or by not doing it you are directly responsible for not saving many species from extinction.

My answer/choice is B

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 07:49:47 AM »
Really? You think saving the dodos is worth wiping out the equivalent of Asia?
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Dave the Necrobumper

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2018, 07:56:30 AM »
I just answered that I would think about it. That said I am sure the dodos would have thought that.

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2018, 07:59:38 AM »
Just what species is so important that you'd stop to think about it? The dolphins?
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