Author Topic: Avengers: Infinity War  (Read 2713 times)

DarkeningHumour

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10456
  • When not sure if sarcasm look at username.
    • Pretentiously Yours
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2018, 05:54:42 PM »
Thanos isn't Death. He is a follower of it, which happens to be a her. They are the sacrifices, she is the altar.
Society is dumb. Art is everything. - Junior

https://pretensiouslyyours.wordpress.com/

1SO

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 31307
  • Marathon Man
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2018, 09:15:00 PM »
Stark covers the whole in the ship with nanobots, the stuff his suits is made from and whose whole point is to be able to adapt to different situations. If anything, you should be questioning how much of the stuff Tony should be able to fit in his gizmo.
I was wondering if he closed his stab wound with the same material he used on the ship, because it seemed like that would lead to severe complications.
Must See  |  Should See  |  Good  |  Mixed  |  Bad

Dave the Necrobumper

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 11004
  • My tinypic changed so no avatar for a little while
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2018, 06:41:41 AM »
Just saw Infinity War last night.  I love this conversation here and there are some parallels to the conversation my daughters and I have been having off and on for the last twelve hours. 

The tone matches the other Russo Bros films-- kinda funny, but mostly dark, especially Civil War. They can do funny on occasion, but they aren't Joss Whedon.


Oh so true, the banter lacked the Whedon wit. That said the action was a match for Whedon's work.

Quote

My main concern going in was too many characters to focus on.  I think the solution they came up with-- focus on the villain, and give other characters moments-- was a good one.  Then you cut most of the main characters out of the plot completely, so if they don't show up until the end of the next film, we won't miss them and there's enough breathing room for the other characters to develop.

But what I really want to talk about is Thanos, the representation of the Hebrew God, as represented in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (BTW, the Greek word for God is Theos)


Sure, the flood was bad, but it isn't the same situation.  First, all of humanity was a murderous bunch at the time of the flood, so there was cause, not just a random pick, and God regretted his decision after, so that he would never do it again.  He repented, which is the opposite of Thanos, sitting on a porch, gazing at the peace he created. 

No, this is more similar to what is commonly called Armageddon, the apocalypse in which all humanity will suffer death or life, most of whom will be placed in their location without knowing why. Even if it isn't random, it will feel random to most of humanity.  And Thanos' priest/prophet is the representation of the church, proclaiming this genocide as salvation and hope, and the sacrifice of (most of) humanity as the just sacrifice.  Frankly, the Christian God is worse, because he will take the majority of humanity and torture them for all of eternity, millions upon millions of years, for not believing correctly.

This is seen in his killing of Gomora, as well.  First, I think his love of his step daughter is seen clearly from the GotG and all through this film.  He played favorites between his step-daughters, seen even in the first Guardians film, not because he despised Nebula, but because he only loved one daughter.  In Genesis, Abraham didn't care for his firstborn son, Ishmael, allowing his wife to do whatever her bias motivated her to do with Ishmael and his mother, her slave, so she left them in the desert to die of thirst.  But Isaac was Abraham's favorite and the one he dearly loved with all his heart.  God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on an altar, saying, "Take your son, your only son, the son whom you love..." repeating three times to emphasize the close relationship they have.  And that relationship was to end in physical abuse, except that God pulled his punch at the end.

According to Chrisitian theologians, this was primarily done to provide a type of what God would do himself with his son. Kill and torture his son despite his love, because the salvation he would provide is worth the price. And that salvation also comes with a cost of killing and torturing (at least) half of humanity.

Ebony Maw is the leader of the cult of Thanos, proclaiming the salvation of Thanos, and calling all of those subjected to the will of Thanos the Children of Thanos.  In Christian theology, all of humanity are children of God because they are all created by God, but they are also in the kingdom of God, and so subject to the will of the all-controlling God.  The church calms the people, trying to make them all amenable to the will of God, especially when it seems evil, when God enacts random judgment against them, such as he did to Job.

From this perspective, Infinity War has a clear theological objective: to reveal the Hebrew God for who he is.  A sympathetic character to a certain degree, but ultimately evil. His will is arbitrary and hateful, even though his ultimate aim is peace in the universe. At best, God is considered misguided and immoral.  The Avengers, despite their misdeeds and errors are better than the one whom millions worship.  It is a takedown of the most popular theology on earth.

In defense of some who honor God, it is a heated discussion within Christianity whether the standard orthodox theology is correct.  Some say that the Bible never teaches eternal torture of humanity, that the separation of humanity is not based on belief, that God's people are supposed to receive but never give persecution, and the inclusion of all people.   Despite this discussion, the takedown of monotheistic religion in Infinity War is mostly correct.  Thanos must be seen as a lesser-evil version of God and if Thanos is wrong and evil, then God of orthodox theology is worse.

[scratches head]So you, who I thought of as a believer in the Christian/Hebrew god, is not, or are you saying you believe in an evil god, or something else?

If Thanos is a god representation, is he a representation of Shiva the destroyer, a god who cleanses through destruction, and has a blue neck. The little I have read about Shiva has very little connection to Thanos otherwise, but the cleansing through destruction is a strong link.

philip918

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2018, 07:51:17 PM »
If Thanos is a god representation, is he a representation of Shiva the destroyer, a god who cleanses through destruction, and has a blue neck. The little I have read about Shiva has very little connection to Thanos otherwise, but the cleansing through destruction is a strong link.

I always thought the "killing 50% to create a balance" was random and silly. Would make a lot more sense if he was the personification of the cuckoo clock speech from The Third Man.

oldkid

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 18407
  • Hi there! Feed me worlds!
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 01:21:20 AM »


[scratches head]So you, who I thought of as a believer in the Christian/Hebrew god, is not, or are you saying you believe in an evil god, or something else?


I am a believer in the God of Jesus, which is not exactly the God of Christian theology.  Like, the God of Christian theology destroys gays and doesn't allow women to lead.  The God of Christian theology also destroys anyone who is not of the Christian religion.  Not my God, but a God of orthodoxy.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

DarkeningHumour

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10456
  • When not sure if sarcasm look at username.
    • Pretentiously Yours
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2018, 02:09:06 AM »
No one's yet mentioned the fact that this movie, for the first time, brought together on the screen all three Chrises, and if that's not a landmark I don't know what is.

If Thanos is a god representation, is he a representation of Shiva the destroyer, a god who cleanses through destruction, and has a blue neck. The little I have read about Shiva has very little connection to Thanos otherwise, but the cleansing through destruction is a strong link.

I always thought the "killing 50% to create a balance" was random and silly. Would make a lot more sense if he was the personification of the cuckoo clock speech from The Third Man.

I also thought it was a bit too silly for the main villain of the entire MCU. I get the logic when it comes to a Titan like planet, but to apply it to all planets indiscriminately, including those with twelve people and a sheep makes no sense.



[scratches head]So you, who I thought of as a believer in the Christian/Hebrew god, is not, or are you saying you believe in an evil god, or something else?


I am a believer in the God of Jesus, which is not exactly the God of Christian theology.  Like, the God of Christian theology destroys gays and doesn't allow women to lead.  The God of Christian theology also destroys anyone who is not of the Christian religion.  Not my God, but a God of orthodoxy.

The Manicheans are back, finally!
Society is dumb. Art is everything. - Junior

https://pretensiouslyyours.wordpress.com/

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 28098
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2018, 07:13:41 AM »
Chris Pine is stranded in the DCU, alas.
Check out my blog of many topics

Im not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2850
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2018, 07:55:17 AM »
Chris Pine is stranded in the DCU, alas.

He is ?
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd

Junior

  • Bert Macklin, FBI
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 28098
  • What's the rumpus?
    • Benefits of a Classical Education
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2018, 08:31:36 AM »
Well, for the moment.
Check out my blog of many topics

Im not a quitter, Kimmy! I watched Interstellar all the way to the end!

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2850
Re: Avengers: Infinity War
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2018, 08:36:32 AM »
Oh, Wonder Woman, right.
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd