Author Topic: Incredibles 2  (Read 1188 times)

1SO

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Incredibles 2
« on: June 16, 2018, 12:07:05 AM »
I may have a lot of questions, I don't know. I'm trying to erase what I didn't like so that next time I can better focus on what worked.

1. Can someone explain to me what the general public in the film thinks about Super Heroes? In the first film we see the lawsuits that lead to protests against people with super powers. In this film they talk about perception, seeing the supers look guilty after all the damage they caused. I can't think of a single moment in the film where we see people fearing supers. Elastigirl zooms by some people on her bike and they're thrilled to see her, even though she hasn't done anything to change the image of supers yet. Isn't Bird making a one-sided argument by not even showing people who are afraid or angry that supers are back in the public spotlight? Wouldn't them secretly living among us raise the fear of their abilities? In the first film it was about the destruction caused by their meddling, but there's a subtext of people like us but enhanced that's never even explored. Bird can make the film he wants to make, but it seems like people are thrilled the moment supers start reappearing. No debate.

2. I don't mind the reveal of Screenslaver. The moment we see Syndrome there's never doubt that it's Buddy. However, the film seems to go out of its way to give it some mystery when there's never doubt who's behind the attacks. It's prolonging this reveal that most holds the movie back for me because now the sister has no purpose and has to have these boring conversations. The moment she reveals herself to Elastigirl, that's when the film gets great and stays good all the way to the end.

3. If supers are in hiding then how is the Owl guy in hiding? He has such an inhuman look, how was he able to maintain a secret identity?

4. Mr. Incredible and Elastigirl still have their old outfits, so I guess their house wasn't completely destroyed. There's a show where we see Bob unpacking things from his man-cave, and I guess the logic is since that was below ground things like the uniform in the glass case wouldn't have shattered when the plane landed on top and exploded. I didn't print this in the main review because it's a total nitpick but I also see it as a sign of Bird being lazier and sloppier than I expected.

5. When Jack Jack transformed into Edna I felt sick to my stomach. I thought this type of Jar Jar humor was beneath the film.

6. Do you think the people in the monorail were plants, stunt people or secretly paid off to insure Elastigirl's rescue wouldn't result in injuries like when Mr. Incredible did the same thing in the first film? Not a complaint, just wondering.

7. Very surprised The Underminer gets away, never to be mentioned again. At the least I thought Mr. Dicker would be sitting on a beach and the film would reveal Underminer laying next to him. When they shake hands, Dicker would realize who it was and there'd be a clue that action would be taken. Some kind of closure.
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FLYmeatwad

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 12:33:15 AM »
Thought the Underminer thing was strange as well.

The reveal of Screenslaver was most definitely telegraphed, the thing that did have me unsure for a while was if they were both in on it, which in the final act it makes sense why they couldn't be, and I get the split between the two, but Odenkirk's character was such a generally sleazy businessman that I figured it would make sense for him to have been part of the plan as well, especially since it seemed like he might have been rounding up all the supers to take them down. But yeah, would have liked for that to have happened earlier.

Also, if there was any question that #HorrorIsHere you really don't have to look much farther than the infiltration of the apartment scene.

oldkid

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2018, 12:10:59 AM »
An alternative ending to The Incredibles is found in a videogame called "Rise of the Underminer" in which the story of the Underminer is spelled out.  I'm not sure if the movie is bowing to the game, recognizing it as canon?  On the other hand, the final image at the end of the credits is the Underminer's drill, indicating that he might return in the next film? 

I felt that supers weren't so much feared by the masses of the public, but by public officials.  Supers can't be controlled, so authorities would want them under their thumb.  The officials seem especially sensitive to media representation as well.  So if the media is positive, the supers have more freedom.

Screech's wings are part of his costume, so his powers are easily hidden.  Although I might rotate my head 360 in public just for fun. "Look, I'm Linda Blair!"

The old costumes were invulnerable, so they could have been dug out, but I think that the underground is a better answer.

But you know what, I don't care.  The Incredibles 2 was an amazing ride.  When was the last time we have seen action scenes as clearly presented as these, while still on the edge of our seats?  I was stunned by Elastigirl's motorcycle ride, Screenslaver's special epileptic-fit-causing effect is cool, but not overused.  The final battles on the ship was complex enough to not be boring, but not complicated, and it kept us interested to the final moment. 

The themes were interesting and complex enough for my family to have a discussion.  Was it an anti-social media film?  Or was it saying that the anti-social media message is without teeth?  Do the supers make people lazy, or does the fact that the movie only shows one example of a person over-relying on the supers showing that it's not really the case?  Provocative questions, but not really answered.

The 60's sci fi shtick doesn't wear old, and we even get deeper into the world that presents this, offering some interesting details, like the house reminiscent of Tati, or of Connery's Bond.

And the family keeps growing as characters.  Definitely growing too quickly, in only a week (?), but it is still great to watch.  I suppose a kid like Jack-Jack would cause everyone to grow quickly. 

Is it too derivative of the first film?  Perhaps.  But it feels like a natural next step for the family, and the action and new ideas are exciting enough that I simply don't care.  Which is interesting because I did care with Toy Story 3, that it was too derivative of TS2.
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1SO

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 09:17:52 AM »
An alternative ending to The Incredibles is found in a videogame called "Rise of the Underminer" in which the story of the Underminer is spelled out.  I'm not sure if the movie is bowing to the game, recognizing it as canon?  On the other hand, the final image at the end of the credits is the Underminer's drill, indicating that he might return in the next film? 
I remember that game. Never played it but I thought it was interesting that they created an entire story out of what appeared to be a minor villain. Now, with him getting away (and with all the damage he caused) he seems not so minor.

Because they haven't announced a 3rd film and it took so long (and the failure of Tomorrowland) to make this one, I can't easily view the final image as part of a planned trilogy. It's the reverse of The Matrix where you thought Film 3 might answer of all Film 2's questions. By all press, Bird hasn't ruled out another one, but he's taking it one film at a time which means The Underminer is a dangling plot thread. Then again, Bomb Voyage was still loose at the start of The Incredibles. (Another point where the new film repeats from the old one.)


Screech's wings are part of his costume, so his powers are easily hidden.  Although I might rotate my head 360 in public just for fun. "Look, I'm Linda Blair!"
LOL!


But you know what, I don't care.  The Incredibles 2 was an amazing ride.  When was the last time we have seen action scenes as clearly presented as these, while still on the edge of our seats? 
I don't think every action scenes in every Marvel film is that bad. While the ratio is low, there are a handful of Marvel action scenes clearly presented and very exciting. Also Fury Road. And the freeway battle at the start of Deadpool.
I saw it with a cousin who commented the time spent on Mission: Impossible must've sharpened Bird's action skills, but I thought they were always this good.
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oldkid

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 10:08:16 AM »
Fury Road is what I had in mind when I made the statement.  I agree that the Deadpool freeway scene is equally as good, but in a different way, because it stops the action they don't build up the tension quite so much.  And I'm not saying the Marvel actions scenes are bad.  Just that I2's are better.
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matbezlima

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Re: Pixar Appreciation Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 07:53:58 PM »
It was a very fun, enjoyable movie, and it had almost all good stuff from the first movie, it is just that the story and the villain are not really stand-out and not that many new elements, but the action, humor and the characters and their family dynamics remains as great and appealing. There were many moments of great dialogue, especially between the family, as the dinner scene being a highlight. Delightful movie that made me happy and hooked all the time. Besides, the role reversal really contributes to expand the characters of Bob and Helen and create conflict, specially Bob dealing with his kids' troubles, he is as main a character ad Helen and you root for him maybe even more than her, because his problems are the grounded, more realistic side of the movie. Bob and Helen are very different characters and seeing them taking opposite roles compared to the first movie was actually far more interesting, funny and clever than I expected, revealing new layers, aspects of them and their personalities that we had not seen much before,  making this movie feel really fresh for me and a true continuation of the first movie. Besides, Bob got all the screen attention in the first half in the first Incredibles movie, we did not really see that much of the family's normal life after Bob got Syndrome's call, much less Helen taking care of the kids, that only are back to the movie's spotlight when they all go to the island. This new movie gives equal attention to both Bob and Helen's routines, the movie cuts between both all the time. Helen is the center of action and her new-found excitement and thrill about super-hero action that she had forgotten and it is interesting discovering that she actually envied Bob doing illegally super-hero feats, as much as she wanted to not admit it and was, in her own words, hypocrite. Helen rediscovers her freedom as a individual, after so many years being worried more about her family than anything else. Bob is in the natural evolution of his character, ready to do what needs to be done for his family regardless if he would still prefer the action, closing his arc from the first movie. Most of the problems that he must handle just happen to explode exactly when Helen leaves, he often does the best that he could  (as studying Dash's new math and trying to get Violet and Tony together and the hilarious Jack-Jack powers, always stealing the show), but Helen probably would suffer as much as him. In the first movie, she had a hard time dealing with Dash and Violet's bickering in the dinner and asked Bob's help. I loved how the screen time of all Parr Family was far more equal and balanced, Violet's in special made me really happy. My only issue is that Dash gets neglected and left far behind in his character development compared to the rest of the family.

Inferior to the first one? Clearly, but still a good, fun movie that never overshadows the characters, the Parr family remains the heart of this movie and its biggest appeal. Not an all-time classic like the first one was, but pretty good and extremely rewarding have new adventures with these characters. Ultimately, this movie really WORKED with me!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 11:16:28 AM by matbezlima »

matbezlima

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Re: Re: Pixar Appreciation Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 10:54:55 AM »
This was my final opinion, verdict, about Incredibles 2. The original receives 5/5, this one is 3,5/5 or 4/5. What do you all think about my points made in my posts in this page of this thread and in its previous page?

1SO

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2018, 01:03:32 AM »
It was a very fun, enjoyable movie, and it had almost all good stuff from the first movie, it is just that the story and the villain are not really stand-out and not that many new elements,
Response to my reaction has often been along the lines of this. On one hand, I agree with it. Because the first one is so perfect to me, I tried holding this to the same standard and was more disappointed than entertained. Over time, I'm coming around to enjoying the film more, but I doubt I will ever see it as a great film. The funny thing is when Cars 2 came out and my hatred boiled over into wanting to wipe that film from existence, I got pretty much the same response, as if I should go easy on Pixar because they're overall output is so stellar. It was easier with Cars 2 because that film is an abomination while Incredibles 2 is just lesser Pixar.


There were many moments of great dialogue, especially between the family, as the dinner scene being a highlight. Delightful movie that made me happy and hooked all the time.
One point I continue to not agree with are the quiet scenes. Their are a number of them at the start of Incredi-1 also, including a family dinner. I liked the building of the characters. Here - that dinner, Bob and Helen at the pool, Helen and Evelyn having drinks - those scenes drag because they're not as thought out or they're either repeating themes from the first film.


Besides, the role reversal really contributes to expand the characters of Bob and Helen and create conflict, specially Bob dealing with his kids' troubles, he is as main a character ad Helen and you root for him maybe even more than her, because his problems are the grounded, more realistic side of the movie. Bob and Helen are very different characters and seeing them taking opposite roles compared to the first movie was actually far more interesting, funny and clever than I expected, revealing new layers, aspects of them and their personalities that we had not seen much before,  making this movie feel really fresh for me and a true continuation of the first movie.
Didn't it disappoint that Helen was so separated from the family she didn't even know what Bob was dealing with? Maybe if it was the same as when Bob was on the island I wouldn't mind, but not telling Helen about Jack-Jack's powers felt like a cheat because she would've walked away from the publicity campaign and the story would've collapsed. So instead, the kids call Lucius? Does that make sense?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 01:39:12 PM by pixote »
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matbezlima

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2018, 03:34:40 AM »
Lucius is the family's biggest friend, so I think that it makes sense. Bob did not want to tell Helen about the family's problems because he did not want to risk Helen abandoning her job to go back to the family, simple as that for me.

Incredibles 2 may not be as fantastic as the original, but it is not a bland and dull movie, very far from it, unlike other Pixar sequels. Incredibles 2 is far better than the other Pixar sequels, but still slightly below Toy Story sequels level. The movie is in the middle of the spectrum.

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Re: Incredibles 2
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2018, 02:21:21 PM »
Bob did not want to tell Helen about the family's problems because he did not want to risk Helen abandoning her job to go back to the family, simple as that for me.


That's how I read it.  Can't say whether or not that's typical for families, but my wife and I have done this for each plenty of times over the years.
"And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs" - Exodus 8:2 KJV
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