Author Topic: Top 100 Club: Bondo  (Read 4679 times)


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Re: Top 100 Club: Bondo
« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2020, 06:39:08 PM »
Playing catchup too.

They Shoot Horses, Don't They?


Sandy: Are you ready to jump into the They Shoot Horses discussion? I haven't read any of the reviews or discussions yet, because I wanted to watch it first.

KOL: I am pretty much where you are. It got quite a bit of discussion recently, however. For the most part of the movie I did not quite get why. Is it a common expression, ”They shoot horses, don't they?” Or, was it just a line in the script?

Sandy: It's from the beginning of the movie, when the boy's dad shoots the horse that broke his leg. Shooting a lame horse, "Puts it out of it's misery." That is the reason he shot the girl at the end. She was in abject misery.

KOL: Now you spoiled the movie. ;D So it only is in the context of the movie? it is not a very good, or rather pleasant, title.

Sandy: Oh! You were just wondering if it was a common saying. You didn't need a play by play! :D Before the movie, it wasn't a common saying, but the concept of putting a horse out of its misery was.

KOL: To me, it made little sense until that scene by the sea shore.

Sandy: Even though it shows small bits and pieces throughout the film to prepare us for that moment, it is still a punch in the gut.

KOL: I never was shure if the court scenes were flashbacks or flash forwards. I’d like to see those scenes again, with the full knowledge of what they are.

Sandy: I wasn't sure for a little while, but then I realized he was wearing his sponsor's sweatshirt.

KOL: Detective eyes! ;D

Sandy: Haha! I was frustrated that I didn't know, so set out on a fact finding mission!

KOL: Cool. With that in mind, do you think that those scenes were revealing?

Sandy: I always wonder if flash forwards, or flash backs are ultimately the right choice in a movie and wonder what the film would have been like without them. I may have had a meltdown without the foreknowledge. It was devastating, those last few scenes... When they found out there months long ordeal was for nothing. The flashbacks may have preserved me from that a bit.
KOL: That was a big topic when people discussed Lost, if i remember it correctly

Sandy: I only saw a few episodes of Lost. What was the consensus?

KOL: Flashbacks can be constructive, flash forwards less so, but I guess there is a place for them as well. i never saw Lost. I think that some of the flash forwards were confusing, but what do I know?

Sandy: In general, it is a creative choice and I respect that. Narration doesn't have to be linear. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Yes! flash forwards are confusing! They trip you up, because they usually go backwards. Have you seen Arrival?

KOL: Pretty much so. Yes I saw Arrival.

Sandy: Spoiler alert, but that was a flash forward disguised as a flashback! very tricky!

KOL: We cant go on more yet. I need to address you meltdown observation before we digress.

Sandy: Ah, yes that. Sometimes a movie is too too much. It takes me a while to recover. Giving me a heads up, let's me prepare myself a little. Now we can move on. :)

KOL: I guess the film is a different take on The Depression. It is an intelligent film in that the pay off comes very late in the movie, but what precedes the pay off is a too slow build-up. It may be smart and intelligent and all that...

Sandy: We are there with them through it all. It feels interminable for them.

KOL: We are with them, sure, but it never feels like that large amount of time after all. They danced (or moved, rather) for over 50 days, right?

Sandy: Yes. I can't imagine.

KOL: Me neither. Seen from an distance it is very exploitive.

Sandy: I wonder what kind of person would make up such a cruel form of entertainment.

KOL: Mr. Green... He dwells everywhere. You must be a very desperate person to opt in for such an event. Did you feel these people were that desperate?

Sandy: Some were there, just because they were hungry. Getting fed routinely was enough for them to subject themselves. Hunger is a great motivator.

KOL: One of the most fundamental, sure.

Sandy: The money too. It was a way out of their situation.

KOL: Yes. dance is supposed to be a happy and joyful thing. it is a smart thing to let such an event frame. i think it worked in a good way, but it left me a bit puzzled for the most part of the movie. in that way i must say it worked admirably.

Sandy: Well said. I can see why its reputation has lasted. It's a unique take and a tricky concept to pull off.

KOL: Personally, it worked less well for me. I never got emotionally invested. it was like looking at animals in a zoo (not that the people were animals!).

Sandy: They were treated as such.

KOL: Yes, and i felt alienated in a similar way.

Sandy: So maybe it accomplished what it set out to do, in a way. The contestants were dehumanized.

KOL: I very much think it did. In a frightful way you could say it translates today. What if the dance event corresponds to an election?

Sandy: It's a good comparison. They both pit one against another. Dehumanizing the other.

KOL: Are we the people the dancers, or is it the candidates that dance? I guess it all depends on your perspective. I should try to think of a top 5 exploitive movies. This would at least get a honorable mention.

Sandy: I'd be interested in seeing that list.

KOL: Me too! i have not thought of it until now and i have no idea what movies would chart.

Sandy: I see the president as the master of ceremonies, calling the shots, manipulating his constituents and his workers alike, using empty promises to keep them in line.

KOL: Was he just an employee or was he the organizer? I mean, he also had to be there for nearly two months

Sandy: Yes, the master of ceremonies was an employee, but he was in on it. He knew he was swindling the dancers. But it's the depression, so he may have felt fortunate to have the job and then rationalized his choice to be a part of it. But what a crappy job. The never endingness of it.

KOL: Which reminds me! hang on....

Sandy: Haha! Did you listen to a lot of disco back in the day?

KOL: I surely did not. I hated disco then, but i can appreciate it a little now as a part of the cultural heritage.

Sandy: I remember it was saturated on the airwaves, like it needed to be shelved.

KOL: We watch movies from all genres. I do anyway, so it should be the same with music, I think.

Sandy: For sure

KOL: Some speak more easily to me, but they all have their worth, give or take.

Sandy: it's a snapshot of a time and place.

KOL: Yes. we always laughed at the yowsah thing, but now i know from where it originates! thank you Bondo!

Sandy: So it's a piece of history, even if I don't want to listen much.

KOL: You don't appreciate Chic?!

Sandy: Haha! I do! In small amounts.

KOL: The producers Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards were awesome. Edwards died, but Rodgers plays on. He was featured on that great Daft Punk album with the helmets on the cover.

Sandy: Wow, your knowledge runs deep, crossing genres!

KOL: hihi. He also played on David Bowie's Let's Dance album. I think the music talk is a nice coda to the review.

Sandy: Agreed! And on that note... :)


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Re: Top 100 Club: Bondo
« Reply #141 on: November 06, 2020, 09:42:55 PM »
I guess I'm not sure if I'd say "They Shoot Horses Don't They" is a common saying in the sense that one is likely to use it in common speech, even though Millennials are all about jokes about wishing for death. So it is less about knowing the phrase as knowing the reference...the fact that it is common practice to put a lame horse down.

Sandy, it was interesting to hear your take on the flash forward and how it made the ending a bit more bearable. I know 1SO certainly and me to some degree thought some of that stuff was the only real weak point. I do think the "is this before or after" question is an interesting one to the degree that it is left open because you could think this is what leads to him being desperate or the outcome of the event, either way it looks bad.

I actually watched a festival film last month that engages in a modern telling involving a contest where people stand around a pick-up truck and last one keeping a hand on it wins it. I think these are real contests in a variety of a minimum a British game show. Our ability to push people into desperation where they can be exploited is certainly alive and well. Though it's always a fine line. Like, there's a whole thing about Uber/Lyft drivers in California and whether to consider them employees as opposed to contract workers, which affects certain pay/labor protections. Based on my knowledge of the employee/independent contractor distinction, I'd be inclined to say they are independent contractors...and further a pure market reading would say that it must be worth it to drive under current conditions or they wouldn't do it, so who am I to say it isn't good enough. And you can make that argument about these contests...ignore economic contexts and just see it as an expression of free will. No one is making them do it and they can leave so they must want to be there...but of course, their ability to say no is constrained if the alternative is starvation.


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Re: Top 100 Club: Bondo
« Reply #142 on: November 07, 2020, 10:06:46 PM »
Reading that, I think of the word tenacity. Misguided or not, the level of dedication to these contests is astounding. I wonder what it would take for me to hold on for that long. Safety of someone else, or myself is the only thing that comes to mind.