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Author Topic: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For  (Read 5202 times)

jdc

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2018, 08:25:53 AM »

The problem with the redemption arc in TBOEM is that it is too easy. The guy has a moment of epiphany and decides to straighten himself, but redemption should hurt, it is about more than making amends, it is about recognising the appalling things you've done and expressing some level of remorse and guilt, and struggling with those. Just deciding to be better here on out is not enough.

Hoe about Little Chirldren? I think a few of the characters in the end find some redemption and all at least have to feel much guilt and suffering for it?
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2018, 08:29:02 AM »
I just have a problem with the phrase "actually act and look like queer people". I have a whole lot of queer people in my circle, and they run the entire spectrum. They neither act nor look any specific way.

On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, there is a reason there are stereotypes about gay people: a large number of them, if not necessarily a majority, conform to one of the multiple stereotypes going around, with Will's butch lesbians being just one example. I don't know a single gay person who would disagree with that.


The problem with the redemption arc in TBOEM is that it is too easy. The guy has a moment of epiphany and decides to straighten himself, but redemption should hurt, it is about more than making amends, it is about recognising the appalling things you've done and expressing some level of remorse and guilt, and struggling with those. Just deciding to be better here on out is not enough.

Hoe about Little Chirldren? I think a few of the characters in the end find some redemption and all at least have to feel much guilt and suffering for it?

Never seen it, couldn't comment.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2018, 08:30:13 AM »
my office is not exactly filled with Patrick Batemans and Gordon Geckos

They must have at least one Cumberbatch

You cannot blame their impeccable taste.

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jdc

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2018, 08:40:52 AM »


The problem with the redemption arc in TBOEM is that it is too easy. The guy has a moment of epiphany and decides to straighten himself, but redemption should hurt, it is about more than making amends, it is about recognising the appalling things you've done and expressing some level of remorse and guilt, and struggling with those. Just deciding to be better here on out is not enough.

Hoe about Little Chirldren? I think a few of the characters in the end find some redemption and all at least have to feel much guilt and suffering for it?

Never seen it, couldn't comment.

That is something you should fix.
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“The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations” - David Friedman

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2018, 09:29:31 AM »
You're right. I should comment more on movies I have not watched.
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Will

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2018, 01:08:51 PM »
I just have a problem with the phrase "actually act and look like queer people". I have a whole lot of queer people in my circle, and they run the entire spectrum. They neither act nor look any specific way.

I feel like you're unfairly scrutinizing me?

There's a cliche/stereotype of how Hollywood presents gay people. You know this. We all know this. Gay men are always extremely effeminate lispy queens (CRAZY RICH ASIANS is the most recent example of this with their token gay character, used for the makeover montage). Lesbians are always conventionally attractive vixens who just happens to sleep with the male lead but still says they are lesbian because bisexuals don't exist (there's no bisexual stereotypes because the heteronormativity of these movies just assumes the gay/straight dichotomy). Transgender people (but let's be honest, mostly trans women because trans men barely ever get any representation) have the saddest lives and end up dead, brutalized, or lonely by the end. Of course there have been strides, but there's a still long way to go.

Of course there are effeminate lispy gay men and of course there are conventionally attractive lesbians and of course many stories involving transgendered people end up sad, but this is the limit to the Hollywood spectrum. And besides, I am willing to bet that I know a lot more queer people than you and the vast majority of them don't fit in any of these small characterized boxes that Hollywood has made for them, so I would still stand by my original statement.

Will

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2018, 01:17:32 PM »
Aren't "unconventionally attractive" people often robbed of roles regardless of the type of role? I think there certainly are a lot more actors in the 70's that are perhaps unconventionally attractive and plain unattractive that would struggle today?  At least if it comes to films that have a reasonably large budget.

Scarlett Johansenn's recent controversy. She was offered a role of a butch lesbian/transman (we don't have the person alive to accurately ask what their identity was). It can be specific to queer people, this offering of unconventionally attractive roles to conventionally attractive actors and actresses. It perpetuates the stereotype that there's something "brave" about "de-glamming", a process which has been used to generate Oscar buzz. It's condescending.

I am not saying you're wrong, but I think it generally affects queer performers and queer stories more because queer performers won't be hired for roles in which they are seen as straight and they don't have the casting narrative around them for their casting to be seen as interesting (though that is slowly changing).

Will

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2018, 01:20:48 PM »
What can you not help but like or be affected by in movies, even when it's egregiously corny or badly executed?

Are we really going to take the diversity agenda so far as to try to cover every idiosyncratic taste in physical appearance?

 ::)

MartinTeller

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2018, 04:04:55 PM »
I just have a problem with the phrase "actually act and look like queer people". I have a whole lot of queer people in my circle, and they run the entire spectrum. They neither act nor look any specific way.

I feel like you're unfairly scrutinizing me?

It jumped out at me as problematic phrasing. I get what you're saying and I don't disagree, but that was a poor way of wording it. Without the added elaboration, it can easily be misread.

And besides, I am willing to bet that I know a lot more queer people than you

Ooh that sounds like a fun game of oneupsmanship! How do we provide proof? Do we need a judge?

*starts frantically tallying*

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Top 5 Things You Are a Sucker For
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2018, 03:23:57 AM »
It all depends on what we mean by "know"...
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