Author Topic: Top 100 Club: Teproc  (Read 22380 times)

oldkid

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 19034
  • Hi there! Feed me worlds!
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2018, 09:19:42 PM »
I'm familiar with it but I haven't read it. I probably should, but the list of books I "probably should read" is basically infinite.

I hear you.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

PeacefulAnarchy

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2132
    • Criticker reviews
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2018, 01:43:51 PM »
Nocturama (2016) 8/10

Starting with such a long dialogue-free stretch is a bold choice, especially with so little context to what's shown. It works, like the rest of the film, because of the brisk editing of a typical crime thriller even when that editing feels at odds with the slow methodical overall pacing. It has its share of bumps where I was wondering why I should care, but there was enough mystery and progression to keep me hanging on, and of course the visuals helped too. The, relatively, more wordy second half has some interesting tonal choices as well, developing a sense of tension together, yet somehow apart, from the characters on screen. Despite the characters all showing clear signs of anxiety and worry their actions are completely at odds with this. It's the same style but reshaped towards a different purpose. As an exercise in filmmaking prowess this is an extremely captivating film.  The content, though, left me wanting a little more, and especially once it was over I felt the experience a bit lacking. The only true context we get is a bit of flashback about a third of the way through, and I'm not sure it really adds anything to the film besides a bit of temporal confusion until I found my bearings. Yeah the film drops some hints here and there, but they only raise more questions.  In fact, without them it would be easier to parse the film as simply hyperfocused on the event and aftermath and not motivation, but as is I'm left wondering what exactly I should take away from this. The characters show humanity, but my connection to that humanity is limited and there's no extra bridge there to make me really invested in their ultimate fate and actions.

Edit: Went back to read the earlier review
This is mostly a lie because the back half has even less story than the front and because it's post-climax, there isn't the feeling of heading towards something. The current has died down to a lazy drift and while there's a dreaminess to it, I don't see myself wanting to sit thru the last 30 minutes again. The spell was broken.
I don't particularly disagree with the spell is broken part, the film does lose momentum towards the end but I disagree that it's not heading towards something, it's heading increasingly predictably towards the ending. The moment they turn on the lights, even though everyone says it's ok, there's a definite sense of a ticking clock and the film periodically reveals cracks in their security as the weight bears down on them. It's a bit of a tedious waiting game because we're not seeing the march towards the ending but rather the flipside blindness as the ending marches towards them. But tone and perspective of the film does increasingly reveal that the march is coming even if there aren't actual facts to support it. I find it an interesting choice and I think it works, though it's dragged out a bit longer than needed.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 01:53:54 PM by PeacefulAnarchy »

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3529
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2018, 02:18:22 PM »
Nocturama (2016) 8/10

Starting with such a long dialogue-free stretch is a bold choice, especially with so little context to what's shown. It works, like the rest of the film, because of the brisk editing of a typical crime thriller even when that editing feels at odds with the slow methodical overall pacing. It has its share of bumps where I was wondering why I should care, but there was enough mystery and progression to keep me hanging on, and of course the visuals helped too. The, relatively, more wordy second half has some interesting tonal choices as well, developing a sense of tension together, yet somehow apart, from the characters on screen. Despite the characters all showing clear signs of anxiety and worry their actions are completely at odds with this. It's the same style but reshaped towards a different purpose. As an exercise in filmmaking prowess this is an extremely captivating film.  The content, though, left me wanting a little more, and especially once it was over I felt the experience a bit lacking. The only true context we get is a bit of flashback about a third of the way through, and I'm not sure it really adds anything to the film besides a bit of temporal confusion until I found my bearings. Yeah the film drops some hints here and there, but they only raise more questions.  In fact, without them it would be easier to parse the film as simply hyperfocused on the event and aftermath and not motivation, but as is I'm left wondering what exactly I should take away from this. The characters show humanity, but my connection to that humanity is limited and there's no extra bridge there to make me really invested in their ultimate fate and actions.

Edit: Went back to read the earlier review
This is mostly a lie because the back half has even less story than the front and because it's post-climax, there isn't the feeling of heading towards something. The current has died down to a lazy drift and while there's a dreaminess to it, I don't see myself wanting to sit thru the last 30 minutes again. The spell was broken.
I don't particularly disagree with the spell is broken part, the film does lose momentum towards the end but I disagree that it's not heading towards something, it's heading increasingly predictably towards the ending. The moment they turn on the lights, even though everyone says it's ok, there's a definite sense of a ticking clock and the film periodically reveals cracks in their security as the weight bears down on them. It's a bit of a tedious waiting game because we're not seeing the march towards the ending but rather the flipside blindness as the ending marches towards them. But tone and perspective of the film does increasingly reveal that the march is coming even if there aren't actual facts to support it. I find it an interesting choice and I think it works, though it's dragged out a bit longer than needed.

I think this stuck with me in part because of the context in which it was released, ie less than a year after the November 13th attacks. What I found in the second half though is an approach towards these people that I haven't seen before: they're not exceptional, they're not that far from normalcy. It's a series of step they've taken that's gotten them there, it makes sense to them, and what it says about our society that they could get to that point is ultimately what sticks with me, as well as well, what happens at the end which is quite resonant today. So I get why you don't get that invested in them, and I might agree that the flashbacks are not entirely necessary, but I find that part of the film very engaging anyway.

That and the fact that it's so slickly shot with an extremely intriguing (dare I say fun ?) first half and the second half has some moments that have really stuck with me.

Edit: I don't find that the film drags that much though I can see how one might feel that way. I find the ending so effective (as predictable as it is) - both because of how it's shot (the several perspectives) and how it's scored - that I wouldn't mind too much anyway.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:22:37 PM by Teproc »
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd

Sandy

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12057
  • "The life we build, we never stop creating.”
    • Sandy's Cinematic Musings
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2018, 02:34:32 AM »
Jackie



Sandy: First, I want to say, Jackie is excellent!
 
Knocked Out Loaded: sweet
 
Sandy: Not sure what the negative reactions have been about, because I haven’t delved into any reviews yet.

Knocked Out Loaded: it wasn’t that well received, was it?
 
Sandy: I don't think so, but I don't understand why. Later, I'll look into it.
 
Knocked Out Loaded: Maybe we can talk a little on the Kennedys as a takeoff point?
 
Sandy: okay
 
Knocked Out Loaded: To me, they seem to be the closest thing the U.S. has had to royalty. Do you have a relation to them?
 
Sandy: I don't think so! But I am related to Davy Crockett. But that's not what you meant! I don't have a connection to them. 
 
Knocked Out Loaded: :) How I relate to JFK is that I always have been told that on the night of the Dallas incident me and my brother were jumping in mom and dad’s bed. I fell, and was taken to hospital, where they stitched me in the forehead.

Sandy: Do you still have a scar?

Knocked Out Loaded: I do... I do not remember anything of Robert’s shooting though. it was in 68?

Sandy: Yes. I also have no recollection of that one, but then again, I wasn’t yet two years old.

Knocked Out Loaded: The career never took off for the third brother, did it?

Sandy: Ted Kennedy? He was a senator for as long as I can remember, but I don’t remember if he ever ran for president.

Knocked Out Loaded: Was Jackie from a more common background? Jacqueline sounds posh. It all is in the name…

Sandy: Jacqueline was a socialite, so came from money.

Knocked Out Loaded: She was the third youngest first lady ever. I came to think of trump’s trophy wife. She is a bit older than Jackie was, but I think trump is one of the oldest men going into presidency ever!

Sandy: Of all the first ladies I’m familiar with, Melania is the closest comparison to Jackie's image that I can remember. Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton were forthright, Nancy Reagan and Barbara bush were matriarchal, Laura was quiet and agreeable, Melania is fashion forward, like Michelle Obama, but Melania's very surfacy and ornamental... One of the First Ladies was a daughter of a president, but wasn’t called a first lady, but a hostess.

Knocked Out Loaded: That is degrading!

Sandy: The wife died while John Tyler was in office, so the daughter and daughter-in- law served as hostesses until he remarried.

Knocked Out Loaded: What an interesting tidbit!

Sandy: I’m here reading more, and it's much more than one president who had a first lady who wasn't the wife: Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren and Chester Arthur became presidents as widowers. Family members stepped into the "first lady" role. James Buchanan and Grover Cleveland were bachelors when they became presidents.

Knocked Out Loaded: These are funny facts.

Sandy: Lots of history packed into a few hundred years.

Knocked Out Loaded: I wonder what happens if a king is unmarried? In practice, I mean. How does the Pope manage?

Sandy: How does the Pope manage without a wife?! 

Knocked Out Loaded: By his side, yeah

Sandy: He must have a posse of cardinals to help him out! …Did Jackie Kennedy seem surfacy to you?

Knocked Out Loaded: In the beginning she seem lost, superficial as she clung on to only objects when they made the White House tour documentary. It is available on youtube, btw!

Sandy: I want to see it!

Knocked Out Loaded: After the assassination she showed very different traits.

Sandy: When you're a socialite, your life is pretty well spelled out for you, she was limited on free thinking and free choice and yet she showed herself to have a steely spine.

Knocked Out Loaded: That sure shows when she talks to the journalist!

Sandy: It sure does! Living up to everyone's expectations is a lifetime of being stoic and that skill paid off in her professional behavior when her husband died.

Knocked Out Loaded: On the other hand, when things like these happens to you, I guess you need to compartmentalize.

Sandy: Most of us would perform admirably under pressure, doing what needs to be done.

Knocked Out Loaded: You think so? Maybe you are right.

Sandy: Most functioning people would. It's the ones who don't function well day to day, who might not do so well under pressure, or those who haven't had hard things to go through yet.

Knocked Out Loaded: Like life goes on, whether you want it or not?
 
Sandy: Yes, you might as well pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get to it!

Knocked Out Loaded: That is true. Jackie seemed to be pushed off the stage a bit brutal however. LBJ...

Sandy: Power Hungry

Knocked Out Loaded: I'd like to rewatch jfk in a way.

Sandy: I haven't seen it but would like to!

Knocked Out Loaded: As I remember it, Oliver Stone goes out on a limb, conspiracy theory wise. I kind of like his paranoid take. He turns every control to "11."

Sandy:  :D I wonder how accurate it is!

Knocked Out Loaded: I wonder too. I like to think that there was something going on under the sea level.

Sandy: Corruption runs deep and wide, so nothing would surprise me... What did you think about the music in the film.

Knocked Out Loaded: I liked the soundtrack. It is a sparse one if you look at the imdb listing. I know that you are fond of musical so the Camelot piece was fun, wasn't it?

Sandy: It was! I have listened to that record many times over the years. I was pleased to see it incorporated into the film as the anchor for a montage.

Knocked Out Loaded: For me it was a first time. I have heard a little of Pablo Casals however. His music was the other principal piece and it had a very fitting mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKoX01170l0

Sandy: Beautiful. :) ...Also, at the beginning of the film, the opening few lines of music (by Mica Levi), to me were brilliant. We’re told right off that this story is going to be in a minor key. It sounded like the "melting" of a beautiful sculpture. eerie, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjS5h1iRruQ

Knocked Out Loaded: That is a sweet metaphor. There was much that melted that afternoon in Dallas... or started to rot.

Sandy: All was lost, and then the aftermath. Yes, a rotting. That's a fitting metaphor too.

Knocked Out Loaded: I have not read up on the subject, but I like to think that there was a conspiracy that ran pretty deep.

Sandy: Something definitely rotten.

Knocked Out Loaded: ...I really appreciated editing, how they moved between the present and the past.

Sandy: fluid

Knocked Out Loaded: Exactly! In a way it was like experiencing her flow of thoughts.

Sandy: Yes, as if she’s reliving moments. Flashbacks can be so clunky, but not here.

Knocked Out Loaded: No, it felt seamless.

Sandy: I appreciate a well-crafted film which plays with time. My favorite film, Jane Eyre (2011), does this well and it’s partly why it is in my top spot.

Knocked Out Loaded: In high profile developments like this, you forget that there are humans with ordinary feelings at the bottom.

Sandy: This stripped away the hype and legend and felt very personal and vulnerable, didn't it?

Knocked Out Loaded: Yes, her grief was just like the person's next door. I forget dimensions like that.

Sandy: pain is pain 

Knocked Out Loaded: It is.

Sandy: Seeing the juxtaposition of her giving the tour of the white house, and then seeing her fall apart in the private rooms was striking.

Knocked Out Loaded: Also, I think the movie maneuvered well between the private and the public. What you mention also is an interesting contradiction.

Sandy: But also a great maneuvering as you said. Why do you think the movie didn't have bigger support?

Knocked Out Loaded: Because it is about a woman?

Sandy: Oh, I hadn't even thought of that aspect. Sometimes I look beyond the obvious.

Knocked Out Loaded:  She is the first lady, but still she played the second fiddle.

Sandy: Honestly, I'd rather see a film about her than her husband, since she is the enigma.

Knocked Out Loaded: If it is done like this, hell yeah!

Sandy: :D

Knocked Out Loaded: Again, this made me want to rewatch JFK though.

Sandy: Me too. I want to flesh out more of the story. But, if I had the two films side by side, both unseen, I'd reach for Jackie.

Knocked Out Loaded: I can see you doing that as a woman. I liked Jackie too, but JFK is an intriguing movie.

Sandy: I wish for both.  I'm an equal opportunity viewer. :)

Knocked Out Loaded: Another thing that I did appreciate was the visual bleakness the movie had
it really felt 60s-ish.




Sandy: Dreary, but beautiful.  ...Did you think Natalie Portman was up for the task of this film?

Knocked Out Loaded: She may not be the actress that digs the deepest, but I think she made a decent job. If I remember right, I think that I had her as my crush in the 1SO poll that newbies are asked to take here. So I have a certain investment in her.

Sandy: Ah! She is definitely crush material.

Knocked Out Loaded: Thank you for not bashing me.

Sandy: I would never do that!

Knocked Out Loaded: :)
 
Sandy: I was very impressed with her in V for Vendetta and have been rooting for her ever since.

Knocked Out Loaded: The Black Swan must be her best one. She was great in closer too. She does a strip scene there!

Sandy: No wonder she's a crush!

Knocked Out Loaded: Yeah, I guess I was caught by the cookie jar now.

Sandy: :))

Knocked Out Loaded: Overall, I liked Jackie a lot. ”No” from the same director also is very good.

Sandy: I would really like to see No.

Knocked Out Loaded: You should try to.

Sandy: Pablo Larrain seems a strange choice for such a movie as Jackie

Knocked Out Loaded: Yes, both No and also Post Mortem had such clear Chilean roots.

Sandy: To jump in and do something so steeped in U.S. lore is very gutsy.

Knocked Out Loaded: This had the feeling of a pay check job.

Sandy: Interesting

Knocked Out Loaded: Yes, it could not have been a pet project, could it?

Sandy: I can’t imagine it would be… I’m here reading about it. When approached, Larrain was hesitant because of his lack of knowledge about the subject, but he said he connected with Jacqueline Kennedy. It also says beforehand he had only done stories about male protagonists. He said her life after the assassination, "had all the elements that you need for a movie: rage, curiosity, and love." Yes, very interesting!

Knocked Out Loaded: Maybe it is better to bring in a person who has a clean sheet for a project like this?

Sandy: I think you're onto something. He comes at the story with fresh eyes.

Knocked Out Loaded: Yes, and also, there in a way is a similarity with Evita Peron? Argentina and Chile are close.

Sandy: Neighbors! I'm sure he was very familiar with her story.

Knocked Out Loaded: I am too. And, JFK and the Chilean president Pinochet both were assassinated.... There is a connection!

Sandy: Our world is not so very big after all and the people in it, not so different.

Knocked Out Loaded: It is not. What goes around comes around... I have one more thing on Jackie. At the end of the movie she sat at the kitchen table and there was a shelf with souvenirs behind her. Among other things, it held a Dalecarlian horse. It made me smile from ear to ear. When and where did they get that horse?

Sandy: …I had to look it up! Great catch. They must have visited Sweden. I'm glad you saw it. Did you have a horse like that when you were a little kid?

Knocked Out Loaded: It was a strange catch, such a detail. I did not have one, but our household had more than one. It is the most Swedish souvenir you can think of.



« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:28:20 PM by Sandy »

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3529
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2018, 03:31:58 AM »
Those are always interesting to read. Jackie got a mixed reception because it was being positioned as an Oscar play I think, but it's an arthouse film rather than a biopic and it failing to get Oscar traction beyond Portman led it to be perceived as a failure, even though most "serious" critics reviewed it favorably I think. Oh, Mica Levi got nominated too, which is good because her score is absolutely integral to the film: you singled out the intro, but my favorite part is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsRWESIlfMM

Re: Portman, I don't know that I agree with KoL that she doesn't dig deep... on the contrary actually, but she is an all-or-nothing kind of performer. That is, when she doesn't care or isn't put in the best situation (most of her workin blockbusters) she just comletely gives up and gives you nothing. But when she's given a substantial character like here or in Black Swan, she really delivers.

I haven't seen JFK either, and I must say knowing it's conspirational in nature is not encouraging me to, as I kinda think conspiracy theories are hurting liberal democracies very badly... JFK's assassination certainly warrants investigating, but I think I'd prefer a more sober look at it I think.

Oh, and as a sidenote: my father collects horses and he definitely has one of those, I didn't know they were from Sweden!
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd

Sandy

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12057
  • "The life we build, we never stop creating.”
    • Sandy's Cinematic Musings
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
Teproc, I'm here listening to the "Vanity" music. Sometimes I get swept up so much in a movie, I forget about paying attention to the music involved. I'm guessing a composer would be most happy to hear that, for it's his/her job to be seamless with the film. It's nice to go back now and take the music on it's own and appreciate it this way. I saw Marjorie Prime and don't remember a thing about the music Micah Levi provided for it. Talk about understated! Just like this tune I'm listening to right now. I like your choice. :)

You're right, Jackie did feel much more like an arthouse film than a biopic and all the better for it, I feel. Funny how expectations can mess with natural reactions. Place this film in a March release, it would have been an eye opening discovery!

If you would like to expand on "conspiracy theories are hurting liberal democracies very badly" in the politics thread, I'm all ears. I so appreciate clear minded and well reasoned views. :)

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3529
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2019, 04:32:20 AM »
I'm up for July in the Top 100 Club, so I did a small update to my top 100, which can be found here (or here if you prefer ICM to Letterboxd).

For those of you who will find the choices too limited on the 100 list (especially since it hasn't changed much since last time), you can also go into the list I made for an ICM poll which goes up to 250 (here).

Looking forward to reading your reviews.  :D

A Man for All Seasons (smirnoff)
A Star Is Born (BlueVoid)
Astérix et Obélix: Mission Cléopâtre (PeacefulAnarchy)
Foxtrot (1SO)
If... (Bondo)
Kakushi-toride no san-akunin / The Hidden Fortress (Bondo)
Louise en hiver / Louise by the Shore (Bondo)
Nocturama (oldkid)
The "High Sign" (Bondo)
The Hateful Eight (Sam the Cinema Snob)
Umimachi Diary / Our Little Sister (1SO)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 05:57:18 PM by Teproc »
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd

Bondo

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 23067
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2019, 07:25:26 AM »
There are two on your main list that I haven't seen (Asterix & Obelix, The Ogres) but I can't source them so they shall remain. Of the others I'm eying The Hidden Fortress, Louise By The Shore, and If.

Also this:

The High Sign

Also known as Dana Stevens' twitter handle, this seems very much a standard order silent physical comedy. Keaton plays a bum trying to scrape together some money and ends up recruited by a gang to kill a man who hires him to be his bodyguard. The centerpiece is the trick house at the end with its trapdoors and the like and the filming is often done from a far enough distance to let Keaton play on his set "live." There is a darkness to it if you interpret the guy who gets the door slammed on his neck as being decapitated.

Sandy

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 12057
  • "The life we build, we never stop creating.”
    • Sandy's Cinematic Musings
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2019, 03:38:38 PM »
I'll be gone for most of this month, but these are three movies I'd like to watch when I get back,

Only Yesterday
Burn After Reading
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (been wanting to see this for a long time)

Teproc

  • Elite Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3529
Re: Top 100 Club: Teproc
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2019, 04:00:06 PM »
There are two on your main list that I haven't seen (Asterix & Obelix, The Ogres) but I can't source them so they shall remain. Of the others I'm eying The Hidden Fortress, Louise By The Shore, and If.

Also this:

The High Sign

Also known as Dana Stevens' twitter handle, this seems very much a standard order silent physical comedy. Keaton plays a bum trying to scrape together some money and ends up recruited by a gang to kill a man who hires him to be his bodyguard. The centerpiece is the trick house at the end with its trapdoors and the like and the filming is often done from a far enough distance to let Keaton play on his set "live." There is a darkness to it if you interpret the guy who gets the door slammed on his neck as being decapitated.

It stands out to me as the best of the ones I've seen along with One Week, though it doesn't have as strong a central concept as that one. It's just pure Keaton (a little wackier perhaps than other shorts), perfectly executed throughout, and that's enough for me to be better than most things.
Legend: All-Time Favorite | Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Poor  |  Bad

Letterbox'd