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Author Topic: Top 100 Club: smirnoff  (Read 27414 times)

smirnoff

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #180 on: December 07, 2021, 05:41:56 AM »
Apologies for the slow replies here: I was away for a week. :)

Heh, this seems like an especially unfortunate pairing. Every time the film went left, it was your preference to go right. I must admit though, I am equally interested in seeing a cut of the film you outlined. I could see that being a very a very relaxing experience. A bit of a shame though since the music and editing does, for myself, all add up to that transcendent experience you imagined was the aim of the filmmakers.

I feel this. 

To both Smirnoff and ET; did you watch the making of documentary and did it change what you thought of the film?

Like yourself I felt it took some of the awe out of the experience, however I respect the inclusion of it for it's honesty. I've criticized documentaries in the past when seemingly organic events are later revealed to have been largely manufactured (a certain interview in Gates of Heaven by Errol Morris for example). With Winged Migration however I think a reasonable compromise is made. They keep the integrity of the doc intact, as a meditative experience, while the integrity of the filmmakers is kept in tact by the additional content. I myself don't have a particular desire to see the mechanisms behind the film, because for me it pollutes an experience which I believe is well within the probabilities of nature to have occurred organically anyways. The feat of the production is certainly commendable though and worthy of it's own feature. I just choose to ignore it. :)

smirnoff

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #181 on: December 07, 2021, 06:21:32 AM »
Glad you gave it a try! Curious if you could think of an example of something you enjoy that WG could have mirrored to better reflect the sort of experience you were hoping for.

Not as far as nature docs are concerned. Nature docs often aim at family audiences, and I think a music-less or music-lite nature doc would repel this segment of the film-going population (which is the majority, pretty much). I am discovering that I find music in film to at times be an excess, an indulgence. Sometimes you need quiet. I think transcendence often comes in the quiet. I don't know any film off the top of my head, though, that eschews music completely, but Tokyo Story comes to mind when thinking about films that are quieter and that put me in a real state of contemplation.

Meek's Cutoff came to mind when you mentioned the prospect of a film that eschews music completely.... however in quickly skipping though the film I found a few places where some faint tones are present. Nevertheless the soundscape is as sparse as anything I can think of. Have you seen that one?

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I think transcendence often comes in the quiet.

We are quite different in this way. For me it is not "often" but rather a rarity. I struggle to think of any example, except for perhaps abrupt stoppages during otherwise heavily scored films, that would qualify as a transcendent experience in film by way of musical silence. Scoring I would say is the foundation on which I may or may not harmonize with a film... and with no score at all I struggle to even engage. There is no film on my top 100 which would be an exception to this, and I'm wondering if there's any film at all which I've enjoyed which that would. I might comb through the list of things I've seen over the years later and see if I can come up with a title. :)

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Tokyo Story comes to mind when thinking about films that are quieter and that put me in a real state of contemplation.


I would say that's a credit to you and the film. When a film is too quiet for too long, or seems deliberately to be eschewing the music as you say, I usually start thinking how pretentious it is and get annoyed at it. :)) 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 06:26:16 AM by smirnoff »

smirnoff

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #182 on: December 07, 2021, 06:43:26 AM »
All roads (wandering thoughts) lead to Dickens

Subsequent to this conversation I did pull a copy Oliver Twist off the shelf. Not because I suspected it to be particularly relevant to the discussion, though Dickens is of course broadly relevant in every discussion, but simply because you put his name in my head and this was the title I had at hand. I just wanted to credit the inspiration for my having now read it. The credit for having enjoyed it goes to Dickens though. I'm sure you understand. ;)

smirnoff

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #183 on: December 07, 2021, 07:53:42 AM »
Before Midnight

I believe there is a general thought that one's preference among the films of the Before trilogy largely tracks your age, shifting toward the later films as you get older. By that metric, Before Midnight represents the closest age match, though I am between it and Sunset. A second way, correlated with age, would be life experience. At the time I saw Before Midnight in the theatre, my level of experience kept me attached to Before Sunrise. In the subsequent eight years I visited Europe and travelled more broadly generally. In those eight years, I had glancing experiences of falling in love. That is to say, in the past eight years I have graduated to Before Sunset. But I have not graduated to Before Midnight, and rather found myself less enchanted with it on this first rewatch. At this point I find the conversations in Sunrise too unmoored, youthful indulgences. Sunset has just enough grit/substance to really get into an emotional place while still having a bit of romantic awe. Midnight just feels crushing, shading more toward Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? than the first two films...and somehow this negativity overwhelmed me more even knowing to expect it.

Admittedly, they had always feared that if they actually stayed together it would risk devolving into bitterness or resentment, and their situation, their varying desires, really do present conflicts that aren't amenable to win-win compromise. Still, their willingness to overreact, to seek bad faith interpretations, and generally be overly emotional, was all rather grating. After a first half that was full of loving barbs between couples with enough history to seem to support it, the second half I guess shows what happens when the masks they put on for company slip, and it leaves me not shipping this couple. And hard as it is to say, that seems heavily on Celine. Is that just what happens when a manic pixie dream girl collides with realism? Maybe something to keep in the back of my mind when traveling, quietly longing for a Before Sunrise experience to present itself (I've had one or two close calls).

A very thoughtful look at the trilogy, and I appreciate that you included your own personal experiences into the measure of it. The idea that one's preference among the films might track one's age or life experiences is not something I'd considered before... or at least never heard stated before. I suppose in watching these films we must all relate to the stages and dynamics of their relationship to some degree or other. I find myself at about the place as yourself, and was nodding along as I read what you wrote. But then I turn on a clip of Midnight and can't look away. It's immediately firing laser-speed fast balls over the plate one after the other and I'm thinking "where else can I get this?". The only answer to that would probably be Before Sunset. To be honest you could consider it and Midnight interchangeable on my list, and of course Sunrise is no slouch either. The larger point being, what a thing this trilogy is. What a thing! Admittedly the highlight of the entire trilogy for me, or perhaps just the scene I remember most vividly, is the moment in Sunset when Celine realizes Jesse actually was waiting for her at the train station when she didn't show up. The exchange between them following that realization is just so great. :)

I contrast to yourself it was my first viewing of Midnight that I came away feeling crushed, and on a second viewing with that memory in mind I was surprised at how much humour and charm was actually in it. The first time I was, perhaps, in a place of wanting to view relationships more cynically, whereas later I brought with me a degree of hopefulness regarding relationships, and so had a different focus. It's all there I guess.

Do any other films scratch this same itch for you as Sunset or the other two?

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #184 on: December 07, 2021, 05:02:54 PM »
Before Midnight is also in my Top 100, it may have been from you since I got it from the Top 100 Club.  I have been meaning to revisit but I don’t remember too much humour and charm in the film, but maybe it is me wanting to have a cynical view. Perhaps a bit at the end but I didn’t read it optimistically.
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smirnoff

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #185 on: December 07, 2021, 05:29:41 PM »
Watchmen



So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late - Dylan

Four installments to watch this. Not because I'm not engaged, but because it's so much to take in. The world is falling apart and the "heroes" aren't faring any better. The level of depravity and the justifiable cynicism following on its heels, make for real and uncomfortable ruminating. The brutal honesty is relentless. There is no room in this nearly three hour movie for false speaking. Ain't nobody got time for that. As the dust clears and the rubble settles, I think of the words, "Life is compromise." That is, unless you're Rorschach and then it's an ultimately untenable life, one that breaks because of his inability to bend. But what if the bending doubles you over to the point where you no longer resemble who you thought you were? What kind of life is that? My head hurts from the unsolvable puzzle and then slowly dulls as lines from a song start playing on repeat:

If only I don't bend and break
I'll meet you on the other side
I'll meet you in the light
If only I don't suffocate


Yeah, that's about my mood right now. A pale, skeptical hope. The words are fitting, since at the end of the movie, Mozart's Introitus to his Requiem echoes them, even if ironically. "Grant them eternal rest and let perpetual light shine upon them."

Thanks for taking the journey. It's rather a long one to be sure. I remember my first viewing feeling astonished by it, but also totally off balance. It was like some fresh hybrid formula and it just kept surprising me. I mean on top of the freshness of how it looked and felt, the strange parallel reality, the unclear rules (in terms of character capabilities), the core story never seemed to give up adding more layers. There is such a diversity of characters and stories and timelines being introduced and build upon, in the midst of the film concluding I'm sitting there feeling like I'm still in the introduction in some respects.

I do certainly appreciate the mature content you mention. It was never going to be a movie used to drive lunchbox merchandise sales, which is a nice change of pace sometimes in a comic book movie. Sin City would be another film this could be said about and I like it very much as well. The more time passes, the more amazed I am that Watchmen exists at all, and that I like it. But I just can't deny that it all works for me. I'm on board for all of it.

I wonder what scenes may stick with you most going forward...

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #186 on: December 10, 2021, 11:48:18 PM »
Thanks for taking the journey. It's rather a long one to be sure. I remember my first viewing feeling astonished by it, but also totally off balance. It was like some fresh hybrid formula and it just kept surprising me. I mean on top of the freshness of how it looked and felt, the strange parallel reality, the unclear rules (in terms of character capabilities), the core story never seemed to give up adding more layers. There is such a diversity of characters and stories and timelines being introduced and build upon, in the midst of the film concluding I'm sitting there feeling like I'm still in the introduction in some respects.

Now there's a review. And, I sit here and shake my head saying, "Yep." :) The rules are unclear and the story unfolds in unpredictable, nonlinear ways. It's disorienting, but very effective. Like reverse engineering. And I too felt like I was just getting started when the credits ran.  You always have well thought out and tangible reasons for the movies which land in your top 100 and I always enjoy reading those "why's." 

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I do certainly appreciate the mature content you mention. It was never going to be a movie used to drive lunchbox merchandise sales, which is a nice change of pace sometimes in a comic book movie. Sin City would be another film this could be said about and I like it very much as well. The more time passes, the more amazed I am that Watchmen exists at all, and that I like it. But I just can't deny that it all works for me. I'm on board for all of it.

I almost chose Sin City as my other movie, so I could have a comic book theme for the month. I'm glad now that I didn't watch them back to back. They each need their own time and space in my head. :) I'll gear up by and by and get to it.

As for existing, It's a wonder. It flies in the face of the whole Avengers model. It's the strangest thing and I can see why you keep it as a favorite.

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I wonder what scenes may stick with you most going forward...

Rorschach's brutal scenes stick with me most. It's partially why I don't watch movies like this much. I can't shake them very well.

Nite Owl's dream was pretty unforgettable too. What a kiss! :))

Sandy

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #187 on: December 12, 2021, 08:20:04 PM »
All roads (wandering thoughts) lead to Dickens

Subsequent to this conversation I did pull a copy Oliver Twist off the shelf. Not because I suspected it to be particularly relevant to the discussion, though Dickens is of course broadly relevant in every discussion, but simply because you put his name in my head and this was the title I had at hand. I just wanted to credit the inspiration for my having now read it. The credit for having enjoyed it goes to Dickens though. I'm sure you understand. ;)

Nice! :)

Here is one of my favorite lines from the book.

“Master Bates saw something so exquisitely ludicrous in this reply, that he burst into another laugh; which laugh, meeting the coffee he was drinking, and carrying it down some wrong channel, very nearly terminated in his premature suffocation.”

Dickens is a wordy guy. If this happens to me, I just sputter, "wrong pipe!" :)

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #188 on: December 12, 2021, 08:42:48 PM »
Do any other films scratch this same itch for you as Sunset or the other two?

In terms of temporal scope, I actually think Boyhood has passed the Before trilogy for me from Linklater. I don't think there is anything comparable to Sunrise in terms of meet cute concept for me to pine for or Sunrise as a template for a chance reintroduction to a missed opportunity of the past.

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Re: Top 100 Club: smirnoff
« Reply #189 on: December 13, 2021, 03:36:49 PM »
Before Midnight is also in my Top 100, it may have been from you since I got it from the Top 100 Club.  I have been meaning to revisit but I don’t remember too much humour and charm in the film, but maybe it is me wanting to have a cynical view. Perhaps a bit at the end but I didn’t read it optimistically.

My feeling during the first viewing, towards the end, was that I was viewing an extinction level event in their relationship, with only a mere glimmer of hope to put a period on the whole thing. I guess unlike some relationships in film which reach that level of animosity, I still didn't feel it was reason enough to end it. And when they cooled off, I don't think they did either.