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Author Topic: General Sports Talk  (Read 3788 times)

MartinTeller

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2020, 12:07:16 AM »
Yes, using “Indian” to refer to a Native American is racist.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2020, 12:28:47 AM »
The Chief Wahoo logo was already being phased out, I'm not sure I agree the use of the term Indians is racist though, but the use as a team name might be.  I knew a guy who said he was a Viking, he'd drink from a horn and everything, really weird, but would that also be considered racist?  Is Trump offended by the Syracuse mascot?  For sure the Washington R's needed to change their name, that was ridiculous for too long, I wonder if the Braves need to go if the Indians go?

Yes, using “Indian” to refer to a Native American is racist.

That's the long and short.

But even if you called yourself the Cleveland Indigenous People or the Cleveland First Nations, it's patronizing and problematic. There are a billion possible names out there. I propose "Burning Rivers".

Is Trump offended by the Syracuse mascot?

LMAO...you're a bad man...  ;D 8)
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Bondo

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2020, 12:32:20 AM »
Good standard is don't use people as mascots.

colonel_mexico

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2020, 12:39:53 AM »
I can agree with that Bondo, but I also sometimes question white people explaining racism to me as a POC, but I get the general sentiment and realize racism can work even among POC

I remember talking to my friend about racism in general how its almost impossible to learn anything, especially something like the law and its evolution without being confronted daily by the racist past and the remnants that still exist today. I think sometimes POC become immune that its as if we almost don't see it occurring right in front of us or to think of how we fit in the big scheme of things when we are trying (or not) to assimilate generally. Are we supposed to go along to get along, or are we supposed to just say hey these things are or are not offensive and what's offensive to me may not be offensive to someone else (a la those Native Americans who support Daniel Snyder's team).  And then we are on the sideline as a lot of white people offer how we all should view ourselves, that is the most uncomfortable.
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smirnoff

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2020, 02:06:44 AM »
In 10,000 years when Homo Sapiens lose the nuclear space war to some alien species, and they invade and almost wipe us out, start a sports league and name one of their teams the Skinbags in our "honour", we can all come together as one and protest about it. At last will we be unified.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2020, 04:45:19 AM »
I can agree with that Bondo, but I also sometimes question white people explaining racism to me as a POC, but I get the general sentiment and realize racism can work even among POC

I remember talking to my friend about racism in general how its almost impossible to learn anything, especially something like the law and its evolution without being confronted daily by the racist past and the remnants that still exist today. I think sometimes POC become immune that its as if we almost don't see it occurring right in front of us or to think of how we fit in the big scheme of things when we are trying (or not) to assimilate generally. Are we supposed to go along to get along, or are we supposed to just say hey these things are or are not offensive and what's offensive to me may not be offensive to someone else (a la those Native Americans who support Daniel Snyder's team).  And then we are on the sideline as a lot of white people offer how we all should view ourselves, that is the most uncomfortable.

Your experience and how you perceive race is one thing. It's damn near objective to say using a race of people as a sports mascot is racist. White people can study social issues and express opinions as well as anyone, but cannot refer to experience when it comes to being racially marginalized, which is where listening and understanding comes into play. When it comes to driving policy change to create a more equitable society, racial, ethnic, sexual, etc. minorities and traditionally marginalized communities and their experiences should be at the forefront. That doesn't mean I can't tell distinguish obvious fact from fiction when it comes to issues such as race. I think the current moment is really bringing out the white guilt and apologism in people, which I really don't have time for. See the issues, speak out on the issues, act on them; but, speak truth as you see it. I'm not deferential when it comes to truth.

28% of Latinx people voted for Trump in 2016. If I'm in a conversation with one of them on the subject, I can and will express the idea that he is a racist white nationalist who hates Latinx people, and I will be right. Although I am white, I understand that if you say people from a particular country are "doing the raping", want to build a wall between our countries to keep them out and make them pay for it, and sow the belief that the people from a particular country are coming here and stealing jobs from other Americans, among countless other things, you are prejudiced against those people. 

To bring it back to sports...

Good standard is don't use people as mascots.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Bondo

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2020, 06:41:01 AM »
Well, there's a lot of examples of white liberals being the ones truly concerned about "racism" (in quotes because I mean racism specifically in the form of things white liberals get concerned about, not necessarily the meaningful instances). Take the whole thing where old pictures of the Virginia Governor in blackface came out and white liberals were like "this is unacceptable, he must resign" and polls showed that Black Virginians had real shrug emoji energy. You also had a spate of tweets last month from POC saying, hey, pulling a blackface episode of Golden Girls isn't actually the change we are looking for right now, we want serious police reform.

I suppose this whole paragraph could be further white person explaining racism to a POC, but I am trying to acknowledge the point that sometimes white liberals (Matthew Yglesias' so dubbed Great Awokening) get caught on the shiny object symbolic racism, while POC, having to actually deal with the ramifications, have a sense of proportion.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2020, 07:34:29 AM »
I quoted the last three responses from Bondo, colonel_mx, and I, and added one over at the Politics thread.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 07:55:34 AM by etdoesgood »
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Corndog

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2020, 07:56:35 AM »
Florida State uses the Seminole mascot with explicit permission of the Seminole nation.
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Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2020, 08:01:45 AM »
Florida State uses the Seminole mascot with explicit permission of the Seminole nation.

And I think this is relevant still in sports. Does that make it OK, then? What about the famous Tomahawk Chop, also used in other stadiums where the team's name/logo/mascot is Native American? To me, that seems like perpetuating stereotypes of Native Americans as savages.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire