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Author Topic: General Sports Talk  (Read 3777 times)

Corndog

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2020, 08:24:03 AM »
Florida State uses the Seminole mascot with explicit permission of the Seminole nation.

And I think this is relevant still in sports. Does that make it OK, then?

In terms of using the nickname, I think yes for sure it does. If the Seminole nation itself does not find it offensive, and actually grants permission for its use, then who are we to say they should be offended?

As for the Tomahawk Chop, and other team names, that is a different debate altogether. I am not sure where they stand on that.
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Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2020, 08:27:14 AM »
I wonder did the Seminole nation vote or did its leaders make the decision. I'm guessing there must be some money involved for using it.

I've heard about indigenous people finding no issue with their names being used for logos or mascots. Still feels icky to me, and as a person whose seen their race exploit others for person gain, it's something I certainly wouldn't want where I go to school. I know it's not the same for everyone, just sayin'.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Bondo

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2020, 08:51:04 AM »
My HS mascot was the Indians. I think we had some form of blessing from a Ute tribe. I remember an assembly. But of course in practice it amounted to football gameday where the whitest people on the face of the planet (my district was probably 98% white) dressed up in headdresses and war paint. Thank god I'm not one to stand for ceremony so I had no part of that.

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2020, 09:03:39 AM »
Yes, using “Indian” to refer to a Native American is racist.

But yet, as a Native American, me and my extended Native family often use that term.
Worse than mascots, I found, especially in the holistic healing community, people lumping all indigenous people’s spirituality into one pot and assuming we all had the same vague beliefs as more insulting. We all don’t worship nature (or the great spirit)or do sweat lodges. My ancestors didn’t hunt or eat buffalo or live in tee pees.
To be honest - I have more pressing concerns than sports mascots and while I laugh at White people dressed in war bonnets, banging on drums and doing the tomahawk chop - I am more concerned about idiots killing or harming themselves in unsupervised sweat lodges and thinking they’ll find enlightenment by taking peyote or mushrooms just because they’re out in the desert or in Sedona following some self proclaimed guru who doesn’t know a thing.
In the same vein, I don’t believe all actual Indians from India practice yoga. There is a difference between paying homage in a knowledgeable, respectful manner and cultural appropriation.
There is also the idea that my biracial identity (Native mom, Italian dad) colors my own experience. I was always too white to be considered actually Delaware even though I was a full member who voted and got all the benefits of my heritage and never Italian enough for the other side of my family - they always talked about full-blooded Italians as though it made them different. I just couldn’t work up the indignation to be insulted over mascots.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 09:05:30 AM by St. Martin the Bald »
Hey, nice marmot!

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2020, 10:45:48 AM »
I think you do bring up a good point. Tangentially related to that, I think a lot of times white people in power are the ones prioritizing what is the most egregious and pressing offense against minorities. This often results in deep systemic issues being ignored while participating in a culture war that may not demonstrably change the quality of life for the minorities it is trying to dignify. We can change mascots, alter flags, and remove statues but if that doesn't result in changes to racist systems are we actually improving people's lives?

I still think the Washington team should change their name but is that name change going to demonstrably improve the living conditions of any Native Americans? Maybe there's a mental or spiritual benefit which I do not want to dismiss but I think these issues continue to ignore that the most pressing needs of these people groups are material.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2020, 06:33:45 PM »
I think we can remove iconography that promotes stereotypical and otherwise harmful views of certain groups of people and make systemic change. We should value the latter over the former, but we can do both. The Redskins can be renamed and the leaders of the First Nations can work with the leaders of the U.S.A. on how to make our country more equitable for the people they lead/represent. I think one reason that we see movement on statues and mascots over systemic change is simply because it's way easier. We have to learn to do the easy and the hard.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2020, 11:08:43 AM »
Chelsea at Liverpool in about three hours.
Today's the trophy raise!
Oh it's going to be so amazing, I'm so ready...
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Bondo

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2020, 04:23:18 PM »
There would be days where I'd be annoyed about allowing three. Today is not that day. Just happiness.

And as an American, seeing Pulisic being so good makes me happy even if it is against my preferred side.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2020, 02:00:58 AM »
There would be days where I'd be annoyed about allowing three. Today is not that day. Just happiness.

And as an American, seeing Pulisic being so good makes me happy even if it is against my preferred side.

This turned into a Liverpool article. I'm depending on Bondo's readership, at minimum. I believe in you!

That game really did have everything. It's one where even if I were a neutral fan, I'd've been thrilled. Pulisic looked like Messi dribbling through the Liverpool defense, though I think Trent helped him out a little on that turn. It was a GREAT turn, but what in the world was Trent doing overrunning him to his left? Once he got around, there was nothing to do but smash it.

I should say, I have very little time or emotion invested in U.S. Soccer anymore. It's such an incompetently run organization, has been for so long. I do follow the women in their competitions, love it, have lots of memories from it. None from the men. I'm a Eurosnob, 100%. I want all American talent in Europe, either on a development squad or breaking into lower-table teams. As for my current cheering interests, I want an orange Holland Virgil jersey at least by the next World Cup, which they better qualify for! They've been my adopted team since their 2010 run when they lost to Spain. It's also my #1 destination to visit for the art, architecture, etc. They're trippin' over there because they don't like foreigners acting stupid at weed cafes. Fine, ban me from them. I can get that shit no problem right here in AZ. I'm trying to go to the Anne Frank House, canal tours, maybe a little red light? Who can tell? And I want to see Ajax play, though I don't know how feasible it is to get a ticket.

The defense seems to have been a little out of sorts since the restart. Just about the whole team has been subpar by the new LFC 2018-20 standards. Even Virgil is a little wobbly. I bet the sharpness comes back when the games mean something again, though. It'll be a better title chase, but I'm guessing Liverpool competes on a lot of fronts in 20/21 if they keep the squad together, and I'm not seeing anything that's solid, anything but possibly upgrade in the midfield (the Thiago Alcantara stuff seems like it was premature, but transfer rumors vs. reality can be, at times, tough to discern). Alisson, the outside backs, Virgil, the front three are all among the best in the world in their positions, not many teams that can boast 7 regular starters that have that going for them. Fabinho may be joining them. I'm excited about Keita 20/21, if the man can just stay healthy, he can be a terror both on the ball, moving off of it, and especially in the press. He may make Ox and Gini rotational players next year in a best midfield of Fabinho-Hendo-Keita. That's if we don't get Thiago. Then shit gets really real.

Should mention the Lallana and Shaqiri depatures, as well as the probable Lovren sale. Lallana was pretty damn good when he was on, but those injuries. Plus, the quality of the side passed him by. He's not a squad rotational player let alone a starter on a great team. Shaqiri, we barely knew thee, but you did give a few memorable performances. He's fun to watch, I hope he gets a chance to feature for whoever he plays for next. Again, just not good enough to get minutes on this squad. Lovren was supposed to be the rock at the back when LFC signed him. Ended up more like a sieve, at least when more was expected of him. I thought he played well when paired with Virgil, played really well in the World Cup, and can be an impact starter on a good team, long as he's not running the show from the back. You at least have to have a good GK and DM to get him in the right places.

Still in my Trent jersey, have been all day. Might sleep in it. That pass he put on Bobby's forehead today was scrumptious. All Bobby had to do was let it happen. And that free kick. Will he be a central midfielder next year? is there any real reason to hurry and push him there now, especially if Thiago comes and Keita comes in at 100%? I just don't know. He's really not THE most dependable defender when he has to do a bit of 1 v. 1. But if it ain't broke, should still be him and Robbo at the left and right back again. How could you want to leave this situation?

This pass is lush, uuhhhh, a pillow up your forehead, nudge it in, you got this!
https://youtu.be/6Cs_TgVV8Yw

Raise that damn thing, ya'll!
https://youtu.be/UAixsyx70AM
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 02:05:50 AM by etdoesgood »
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Bondo

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Re: General Sports Talk
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2020, 06:27:35 AM »
I think it would be fun to see Trent get a game or two in midfield to try it out, but obviously you aren't moving him there to be second to Hendo. He'd still probably need to be able to drop back into RB as cover for Neco.

I'm interested in Chelsea's transfer plan. They got Timo Werner and Hakim Ziyech added up front with Pulisic and Abraham etc and are rumored to be going big for Kai Havetz. Makes their attacking options seem top heavy. Right now the reason Liverpool are clear ahead of Man City, Man U and Chelsea among others is they have a fairly coherent back six. These other top teams can to a fair degree match our attacking nous but they just ship too many goals and when the offense doesn't click they drop points. They are all Liverpool pre-Virgil/Alisson basically. Anyway, one point of this paragraph is noting that Willian is out of contract and I'm actually kind of intrigued in him as a squad prospect for Liverpool. I have learned that free transfers are not quite the bargain they seem (tend to come with higher salary demands and agent fees in lieu of transfer fees) and Willian is insisting on a three-year, which at his age could be more than we want to commit to for a squad player. Still think he'd offer an improvement on the wings over Origi and Shakiri. Between him and Minamino and Brewster (who has been straight tearing up the Championship and got Swansea into the playoff) we'd have something to work with behind the big three. We'll see about Thiago but that would be a luxury signing. Seems left back is the one place where they seem honestly engaged in the market as they seem to be crying poverty and just wanting to let the young players progress in at the other spots in the squad.