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Author Topic: Cultural Politics of Movies  (Read 2567 times)

Dave the Necrobumper

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Cultural Politics of Movies
« on: February 16, 2021, 08:55:08 PM »
For discussion about cultural politics of Movies. For example possible issues with the Malik film The New World.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 08:56:28 PM »
For discussion about cultural politics of Movies. For example possible issues with the Malik film The New World.

I just wrote about moving things here. Well done! I also got a good lol out of the description.

Hopefully Sam replies here.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

Dave the Necrobumper

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 08:58:56 PM »
I enjoy reading along with the various discussions of this nature and want them to continue. The discussion between you and Sam was really good. Maybe a mod could move some of the discussion from the jdc club to here

Sandy

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2021, 09:25:16 PM »
I feel like I've had my say about how judging movies with 20/20 woke hindsight diminishes opportunities to appreciate the steps that have gotten us to this point in time. Film history will only be as instructive as you allow it to be. I will continue to read conversations about it, but I'm done trying to convince, or implore.

Dave the Necrobumper

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2021, 09:54:39 PM »
There are a lot of older movies I would like to show to my kids, but they will have to wait until they are older, when they might be willing to listen to the social/cultural problems with those films. Case in point would be Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. I don't care about the kids seeing/hearing the swearing and stuff, but many of the attitudes to women and minorities were appalling. I am concerned that if those ideas go in, they may be hard to dislodge. That said I watched a lot of those films as a kid. Still that has taken years of unpacking to see how wrong they are.

That said both my kids do not blink at the idea of someone being trans or same sex attracted, so they are getting a much better grounding than I did in sexual politics.

Will

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 12:10:06 AM »
Reviewing the subject at hand, I am of two minds:

1. I agree with ET that Malick probably shouldn't have touched that story.

2. I also agree with Sam that Malick did a lot of justice to that story.

It breaks down with what our preconceived cultural notions of who Pocahontas was. The cultural consciousness of Pocahontas has been completely spoiled by the overtly propagandistic portrayal in Disney's 1995 animated film. POCAHONTAS was a massive box office success. Since that film will likely never be given the SONG OF THE SOUTH treatment (though it probably should), any subsequent positive or accurate depictions of that story are ultimately a good thing because it  restores justice to that piece of history. And yet, it doesn't completely restore justice because the narrative is still being written by the victor instead of the victim.

Sam claims the film doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum. Correct. Et claims the filmmaker doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum. Also correct.

One more thing. Steven Spielberg initially rejected directing THE COLOR PURPLE. He felt he wasn't the correct director for a number of reasons - one of which was his race. But Quincy Jones, the producer, knew that there were no black directors at the time who had commercial pull to get the project off the ground. He expressed this to Spielberg. The movie is one of his best films and launched the careers of several black actors and artists that not only still work today, but helped provide opportunities for other black filmmakers. It was recently just announced that the musical adaptation of THE COLOR PURPLE will be made into a film. The director? Samuel Bazawule, a Ghanian music video director.

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 12:14:33 AM by Will »

jdc

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 01:25:12 AM »
This is where I am going to split on the idea of putting limits what the director or artist can or can not touch vs them being answerable to the product that they produce.  It seems most agree Malick did justice to the story but then some believe he shouldn’t touch it, though it is a story that cuts across cultures.  I’d prefer that the end work needs to be answerable otherwise I just see too many areas where lines and boundaries could be set on what any one individual can do, especially if “shouldn’t have touched” turns into “no right to touch” which goes from personal opinion to a matter of trying to impose a policy, rule or law.

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Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 11:22:05 AM »
I will catch up with this thread at some point soon and have more to add about the discussion but it might be a few days. I'm trying to use electronics as little as possible while we continue to have a power crisis in Texas.

Will

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 01:11:25 PM »
This is where I am going to split on the idea of putting limits what the director or artist can or can not touch vs them being answerable to the product that they produce.  It seems most agree Malick did justice to the story but then some believe he shouldn’t touch it, though it is a story that cuts across cultures.  I’d prefer that the end work needs to be answerable otherwise I just see too many areas where lines and boundaries could be set on what any one individual can do, especially if “shouldn’t have touched” turns into “no right to touch” which goes from personal opinion to a matter of trying to impose a policy, rule or law.

In theory, I would agree with you. But also - in theory, the US government and studio production (in pursuit of profit motive) would not monitor the work of the artist. However, this is not the case. These two continuing circumstances limit what is created and who gets to create it. This conversation isn't all that different from the one people have over cultural appropriation. In theory, I should be able to have dreadlocks but because of the continuing circumstances that have deemed them unprofessional when a black man has them, I cannot.

What we have to agree upon then is if we process this reality in the same way.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: Cultural Politics of Movies
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 10:02:35 PM »
Wes Anderson's 'Isle of Dogs': Is Cultural Appropriation Hollywood's Next Big Battleground?. Great article on the subject. Knowing that it's unlikely to get anyone to read a whole article (and I can't blame you, time is at a premium), the author eventually forwards two basic rules for people making art from cultures other than their own:

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First: Do the work. It would be easy to try and call out director Ryan Coogler for hiring a white guy to compose the Black Panther score. And not just any white guy, but a guy from Sweden — the whitest of white places. But Ludwig Goransson did the work. Not only has he scored each of Coogler's movies, but he's produced artists like Chance the Rapper and Donald Glover. And when Coogler brought him on board for Panther, he took it very seriously. "I was incredibly excited as it was a dream of mine to score a superhero movie," Goransson told THR by phone in February during a break from producing the new Childish Gambino album. "I also felt incredible pressure to pay homage to African culture and its traditional music. It's not lost on me that I'm a Swedish guy from one of the coldest countries in the world."

He spent months researching traditional African music and went to the continent itself to travel with African musicians, before recruiting some to play on the score itself. Goransson did the work and it shows.

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And second: Don't be a strip-miner. Don't treat culture like some kind of Vegas buffet, filling your plate with exotic flavors and setting it in front of a Caucasian protagonist to be tickled and amused by. Remember the importance of empathetic weight: Who is the story about? And if it's about a person from the culture you are drawing from, you've already gone a long way toward achieving a fidelity of intention as well as execution.

I do not know what kind of advisement Malick took from the indigenous people when making his film. However, it's the second point above that explains how I think The New World is a violation of the duty of a creator. You might say that the central figure is Pocahontas, but I'd say it's Pocahontas via the white male gaze, not by half an honest portrayal of her lived reality.
A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire

 

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