Author Topic: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts  (Read 712324 times)

mañana

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2010 on: December 24, 2008, 01:47:42 AM »
Rushmore was in the top 20 movies I sent in for the top 100 movies thing, I think. You've made me want to watch it again, matt. We just have to make sure you don't get your hands on any Andersons in the noughties bracket :)

I do actually like The Royal Tenenbaums.

The Darjeeling was a big disappointment. And I felt only one thing for Hotel Chevalier: hostility.
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pixote

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2011 on: December 29, 2008, 06:03:57 AM »
You've almost convinced me that I need to watch it again, but since that won't happen for a while and I want to make my point clear: I think you are undervaluing the idea of punishment in the film. That's what it is about, the writer decides he is going to use some stupid plot device to force a character into acknowledging "the error of his ways", as if being a jerk was a crime rather than a personality trait. Even if you believe his change to be genuine, coming from within, you still can't separate it from a necessity to adapt to a specific set of circumstances (as edgar mentions above), which include the restriction of his freedom. It is an antagonistic force, it's opressive and torturous, so much so that he repeatedly tries to kill himself. And it's only when he changes that he is let go. That's not interesting to me (and certainly not endearing or funny, as it wants to be).

He doesn't change to escape the repeating day, though.  He has no idea whether escape is possible.  He changes because he's torturously in love with Rita and comes to believe (by means of the plot device, yes) that he doesn't deserve her.  Right before the third act, he stares at her, lying half-asleep beside him, and says with admiration and envy that he's never seen anyone that's as nice to people than her.  His subsequent change is to be more worthy of her, not to escape the repeating day, which he now sees less as a curse than as blessing (Rita's idea).  That realization occurs before the third act as well, when he's with Rita and realizes that he doesn't need to escape the day to find happiness.  The main reason he killed himself earlier was because a day didn't seem like enough time to do that, but that turns out not to be true. That's all in keeping with the idea that the repeating day is not punishment but a gift (see also: It's a Wonderful Life).

Incidentally, I don't know how funny and endearing the film wants to be, but it's pretty damn funny and sufficiently endearing.  So there!  :D

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« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 06:05:42 AM by pixote »
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pixote

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2012 on: December 29, 2008, 09:13:20 AM »
I should point out that the movie wasn’t as funny as I remembered it. I did see it a long time ago and many of the scenes felt new to me, but I didn’t laugh that hard very often. In fact I didn’t laugh that often period, I smiled a lot. Don’t mistake me, there were some good scenes, but few carried any real good comedic flare.
Like you, I definitely smiled a lot, but also I laughed pretty consistently as well.  One thing that sets Groundhog Day apart from a lot of comedies is that it doesn't totally live and die with its laughs.  The story is good enough and the plotting clever enough that it's still very entertaining in scenes where it barely ever even goes for a laugh.  The scene with Phil talking to Rita when she's half asleep is the best example of this.  There aren't many better end-of-act-two low points in modern comedies.  Apatow-school films, for example, always resort to having the two main characters (guy and girl or guy and guy) yell at each other annoyingly and unfunnily for like five minutes and go their separate ways.  Groundhog Day, on the other hand, pulls off a tender, heartfelt whisper for the low point and it's totally engaging and great without a single attempt at humor.  And it perfectly sets up the great final act without resorting to that generic "oh no, he's lost her forever" trope.

The other great example is the scene where Phil introduces Rita to everyone in the diner.  I'm pretty sure I didn't laugh once there, but I was smiling huge the whole time, and that's good enough for me.  It's a fantastic scene.

On the flipside is the first act, which is all setup, covering a lot of territory quickly and briskly but leaving little time for good laughs.  This is fine on first viewing, but once you've already seen the film, it feels a little like wasted space.  Murray as egocentric asshole isn't as interesting or funny as hedonistic Murray or suicidal Murray or prince of the city Murray.  Still, those early scenes are pretty effective and engaging and occasionally charming, even if they're rarely if ever laugh out loud funny.

I forgot what my point was... Oh, yeah, I remember now.  Groundhog Day is a pretty great movie.  And a funny one, too.



LOL!



That subtitle doesn't capture Murray's great delivery there.  His pause before "again" is just perfect.  LOL!



Usually comedies like this don't get away with on-point jokes like this one, but Groundhog Day is exceptional that way.  Murray's inflection here is perfect again.  A bemused whine for the LOL!



I didn't remember this psychiatrist character at all, but he's surprisingly awesome for being so broad.  The full line is, "That's an unusual problem, Mr. Connors... Most of my work is with couples, families... I have an alcoholic now!"  LOL!



Another on-point joke that works well.  Murray's reaction is what sells it.  His grinding the pillow into his face is great, too.  LOL!



Oh man, Ralph (the character on the left) steals every scene he's in.  The setup here is Phil asking, "What would you do if you were stuck in one place and every day was exactly the same, and nothing that you did mattered?"  And that's Ralph's drunken, deadpan reply:  "That about sums it up for me."  LOL!



I told you Ralph was hilarious.  And that look on Murray's face is priceless, as per usual.  LOL!



Another laugh-getting delivery by Murray.  LOL!



Phil: "It's the same things your whole life: "Clean up your room." "Stand up straight." "Pick up your feet." "Take it like a man." "Be nice to your sister." "Don't mix beer and wine, ever." Oh yeah, "Don't drive on the railroad track."

Gus: Eh, Phil. That's one I happen to agree with.

pix: Murray's delivery is off here, but Gus and Ralph make it all worthwhile.  LOL!



The train can't swerve — it's on tracks!  ;)  Easy but effective.  LOL!




Murray's face and inflection make his line LOL funny, but Ralph's deadplan reply is even funnier — LOL!



Capping the police chase with the whole fast food window bit is all great, but again Ralph gets the biggest laugh, reiterating his call for flapjacks.  This time, though, Murray gets the last laugh.  The faces in that still are all so priceless.  LOL!



Phil's punching Ned is just way too satisfying, mainly because of the way Phil greets him so enthusiastically right beforehand.  And part of the fun is knowing what's coming.  LOL!



LOL!



More pricelessness from Murray, the way he greets Nancy.  The subtitles don't even try to capture it, but "Nancy?! Nancy Taylor!!?!" is just hilarious.  LOL!



A throwaway line made hilarious by Murray and the costumes and the randomness of the context.  LOL!



Murray's recitation of the French poetry might be the funniest moment in the whole movie.  His commitment to it, his gravitas, is just brilliant.  LOL!



Rita: I could never love someone like you. You only love yourself.

Phil: That's not true. I don't even like myself.

pix: LOL!



Phil's trying to recreate the previously magical moment where he fell next to Rita in the snow is awesome.  I feel like these scenes are a very conscious meditation on the nature of acting — like watching rehearsals or screening dailies.  Anyway... LOL!



The Jeopardy! scene is still a favorite of mine.  Perfect from start to finish.  When Phil freaks out the woman next to him by knowing the last answer before Trebek even finishes reading the question and the other old people in the room clap in amazement, I'm just dying.  LOL!



Chris Elliott doesn't contribute much to the film for me, but his delivery here in answer to Rita's question, "Why would anybody want to steal a groundhog?" is money.  LOL!



There's something a little clumsy about this whole sequence, so I can understand edgar's feelings, but this isolated moment here is phenomenal.  LOL!



One of my most quoted lines ever.  LOL!



A small moment, but this followup to the first death scene is hilarious for being so unexpectedly understated.  LOL!



LOL!



Classic Murray.  LOL!



I don't quite understand why this moment is so funny, but LOL!



Haha, poor Ned.  LOL!



Another favorite moment.  Murray's emphasis on "never" totally kills.  LOL!



There really should have been a movie in the 90s where Murray was head of a nursing home.  Old people were perfect foils for him then.  LOL!



One last conceptually on-point joke that shouldn't work but does because Murray is so awesome and the framework of the movie is so great.  LOL!

I'm still not sure if Groundhog Day will be ahead of Trust on my resurrection rankings, but I'll definitely be happy to see either one of those in the next round.

pixote
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 10:04:53 AM by pixote »
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¡Keith!

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2013 on: December 29, 2008, 10:41:42 AM »
GHD>Trust

(also you've convinced me to vote for resurrection - though I think i was gonna anyways)

duder

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2014 on: December 29, 2008, 11:10:38 AM »
You've almost convinced me that I need to watch it again, but since that won't happen for a while and I want to make my point clear: I think you are undervaluing the idea of punishment in the film. That's what it is about, the writer decides he is going to use some stupid plot device to force a character into acknowledging "the error of his ways", as if being a jerk was a crime rather than a personality trait. Even if you believe his change to be genuine, coming from within, you still can't separate it from a necessity to adapt to a specific set of circumstances (as edgar mentions above), which include the restriction of his freedom. It is an antagonistic force, it's opressive and torturous, so much so that he repeatedly tries to kill himself. And it's only when he changes that he is let go. That's not interesting to me (and certainly not endearing or funny, as it wants to be).

He doesn't change to escape the repeating day, though.  He has no idea whether escape is possible.  He changes because he's torturously in love with Rita and comes to believe (by means of the plot device, yes) that he doesn't deserve her.  Right before the third act, he stares at her, lying half-asleep beside him, and says with admiration and envy that he's never seen anyone that's as nice to people than her.  His subsequent change is to be more worthy of her, not to escape the repeating day, which he now sees less as a curse than as blessing (Rita's idea).  That realization occurs before the third act as well, when he's with Rita and realizes that he doesn't need to escape the day to find happiness.  The main reason he killed himself earlier was because a day didn't seem like enough time to do that, but that turns out not to be true. That's all in keeping with the idea that the repeating day is not punishment but a gift (see also: It's a Wonderful Life).

Incidentally, I don't know how funny and endearing the film wants to be, but it's pretty damn funny and sufficiently endearing.  So there!  :D

pixote

You make a good case for it (again), but my point above remains. You can't separate his 'falling in love'/'wanting to change' from the set of the circumstances in which he finds himself. The catalyst for all of what happens is the limitation of his freedom (both in time and space! :D). And we're meant to see that as a gift, you say? Hmm...
...

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2015 on: December 29, 2008, 11:38:10 AM »
You've almost convinced me that I need to watch it again, but since that won't happen for a while and I want to make my point clear: I think you are undervaluing the idea of punishment in the film. That's what it is about, the writer decides he is going to use some stupid plot device to force a character into acknowledging "the error of his ways", as if being a jerk was a crime rather than a personality trait. Even if you believe his change to be genuine, coming from within, you still can't separate it from a necessity to adapt to a specific set of circumstances (as edgar mentions above), which include the restriction of his freedom. It is an antagonistic force, it's opressive and torturous, so much so that he repeatedly tries to kill himself. And it's only when he changes that he is let go. That's not interesting to me (and certainly not endearing or funny, as it wants to be).

He doesn't change to escape the repeating day, though.  He has no idea whether escape is possible.  He changes because he's torturously in love with Rita and comes to believe (by means of the plot device, yes) that he doesn't deserve her.  Right before the third act, he stares at her, lying half-asleep beside him, and says with admiration and envy that he's never seen anyone that's as nice to people than her.  His subsequent change is to be more worthy of her, not to escape the repeating day, which he now sees less as a curse than as blessing (Rita's idea).  That realization occurs before the third act as well, when he's with Rita and realizes that he doesn't need to escape the day to find happiness.  The main reason he killed himself earlier was because a day didn't seem like enough time to do that, but that turns out not to be true. That's all in keeping with the idea that the repeating day is not punishment but a gift (see also: It's a Wonderful Life).

Incidentally, I don't know how funny and endearing the film wants to be, but it's pretty damn funny and sufficiently endearing.  So there!  :D

pixote

You make a good case for it (again), but my point above remains. You can't separate his 'falling in love'/'wanting to change' from the set of the circumstances in which he finds himself. The catalyst for all of what happens is the limitation of his freedom (both in time and space! :D). And we're meant to see that as a gift, you say? Hmm...

You really don't find it interesting that a stereotypical crass western man like Murray's character is suddenly forced (by fate/god(s)/writer) into a path that leads to acknowledgement of eastern themes of reincarnation, Zen, Wu wei & enlightenment?

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2016 on: December 29, 2008, 01:56:54 PM »
You're the best, pix!

roujin

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2017 on: December 29, 2008, 02:15:47 PM »
I should rewatch that movie. I didn't have the problem duder had. I just didn't think it was very funny...

edgar00

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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2018 on: December 29, 2008, 02:24:10 PM »
The plot based jokes were fine, but overall I didn't find the movie that funny. I was more interested in the story than the jokes to be honest.
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Re: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts
« Reply #2019 on: December 29, 2008, 02:28:28 PM »
The plot based jokes were fine, but overall I didn't find the movie that funny. I was more interested in the story than the jokes to be honest.

thats a bad thing?

 

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