Author Topic: 1990s US Bracket: Verdicts  (Read 712486 times)

alexarch

  • Godfather
  • *****
  • Posts: 6995
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #660 on: June 18, 2008, 11:56:10 AM »
After thinking about it for a while, you might be onto something.

Thinking about my qualities of camp:

1) A deep, sincere vision with intent to create something on the grandest of scales.
2) Matched by an equally grand failure in execution.
3) A queer sensibility.

I think you have the first two with Starship Troopers, but it's missing the queer sensibilities.  So, I'd classify Starship Troopers with Total Recall as Camp for Straighties.  And that may be the reason that I loathe it with all of my being.  I don't like what rightfully belongs to us being co-opted.  It's like being shoved out of our gayborhoods by gentrification.


St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 11205
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #661 on: June 18, 2008, 12:41:11 PM »
After thinking about it for a while, you might be onto something.

Thinking about my qualities of camp:

1) A deep, sincere vision with intent to create something on the grandest of scales.
2) Matched by an equally grand failure in execution.
3) A queer sensibility.

I think you have the first two with Starship Troopers, but it's missing the queer sensibilities.  So, I'd classify Starship Troopers with Total Recall as Camp for Straighties.  And that may be the reason that I loathe it with all of my being.  I don't like what rightfully belongs to us being co-opted.  It's like being shoved out of our gayborhoods by gentrification.



  But couldn't you almost paint Van Diem's and Meyer's relationship as that twisted sort of fag/hag relationship - unrequited until he's drunk then instead of forcing her into hag exile, Verhoeven just kills her.
  I thought some of the shower scenes exhibited some queer sensibilities not to mention the whipping scene (dungeons, leatherboys anyone?)...
Hey, nice marmot!

alexarch

  • Godfather
  • *****
  • Posts: 6995
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #662 on: June 18, 2008, 12:47:43 PM »
Anything remotely queer about Starship Troopers gets negated by Ironsides.  He emits a phermone that acts as an Anti-Queer.

Try this as a social experiment.  Put Ironsides in the middle of P-town on Labor Day.  Four hours later all the boiz will be looking for a lawn to mow, a dart to throw, an eight-point buck to shoot, or a beer to swig.

pixote

  • Administrator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 34237
  • Up with generosity!
    • yet more inanities!
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #663 on: June 18, 2008, 12:53:16 PM »
Anything remotely queer about Starship Troopers gets negated by Ironsides.  He emits a phermone that acts as an Anti-Queer.

Try this as a social experiment.  Put Ironsides in the middle of P-town on Labor Day.  Four hours later all the boiz will be looking for a lawn to mow, a dart to throw, an eight-point buck to shoot, or a beer to swig.
There's P-town ... and then there's Top Gun.



pixote
Great  |  Near Great  |  Very Good  |  Good  |  Fair  |  Mixed  |  Middling  |  Bad

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 11205
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #664 on: June 18, 2008, 01:26:03 PM »
Anything remotely queer about Starship Troopers gets negated by Ironsides.  He emits a phermone that acts as an Anti-Queer.

Try this as a social experiment.  Put Ironsides in the middle of P-town on Labor Day.  Four hours later all the boiz will be looking for a lawn to mow, a dart to throw, an eight-point buck to shoot, or a beer to swig.

  Thanks for making me laugh out loud then try and explain it to my co-workers...

  Butt then - Ironsides did star in (as Pix has shown) Top Gun - a movie so gay that I thought Meg Ryan was a trannie for yrs (and I still think Kelli McGillis, with that voice, might be one). He had a hot and steammy line in the showers and I thought his eyes were straying south as he ordered the young cubs, Goose and Mav, up to big bear Viper's office for their "discipline"...cuz they went below the "hard deck"....
Hey, nice marmot!

¡Keith!

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 26774
  • Bitch, I been around since LimeWire.
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #665 on: June 18, 2008, 01:32:34 PM »
Would they be mowing the lawn in jean short cut offs?  If so then I think its not all straight & narrow.

Seriously though the ultra po-mo 90's were a time when camp finally got a "Big Tent" after being relegated to a gay and urban sophisticate population for the most of the century (like the republicans & their Log Cabin black sheep).  Susan Sontag said "You can't do camp on purpose," yet John Waters & Rocky Horror proved you could and as Gen-X embraced irony, camp followed as a logical outcropping.  Of course this reversed the roles in that as the straight kids were all accepting, sensitive and hipster/metro.  PV goes and fires off an ultra militaristic yarn with ideas of valor and social responsibility when nothing meant nothing - at the beginning of the film in class Ironsides talks about how all the liberals of their past had let the human race fall like the roman empire into a state of decadence and that "the patriarchs" (or something like that) has wrested control of the nation states and imposed rigid military discipline on the populous creating the harmonious time in which they lived. Of course since then the pendulum has swung the other way.  

I never considered the fact that "Camp for Straighties" would offend a gay man but since that is exactly what camp is supposed to do (offend the status quo, which is in opposition in this particular theater to the "status quo") I rate it even higher!!

alexarch

  • Godfather
  • *****
  • Posts: 6995
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #666 on: June 18, 2008, 01:36:36 PM »
See _Keith_, if you want to engage in thoughtful conversation with someone, you're going to have to look somewhere else. 'Cuz all I read in your post was, "blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring, John Waters, blah, blah, blah, Gen-X, blobbidy, blobbidy, blah."

¡Keith!

  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 26774
  • Bitch, I been around since LimeWire.
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #667 on: June 18, 2008, 01:40:38 PM »
 ;D exactly the response I was expecting.  I have no problems pontificating to enlarge my post count... I mean it beats whoring right?

(oh and I know you also read cut off jean shorts)

ses

  • Administrator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 14979
    • Sarah's Kitchen Adventures
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #668 on: June 18, 2008, 02:20:20 PM »
Anything remotely queer about Starship Troopers gets negated by Ironsides.  He emits a phermone that acts as an Anti-Queer.

Try this as a social experiment.  Put Ironsides in the middle of P-town on Labor Day.  Four hours later all the boiz will be looking for a lawn to mow, a dart to throw, an eight-point buck to shoot, or a beer to swig.
There's P-town ... and then there's Top Gun.



pixote


Yee haw, Jester's dead!  :)
"It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart"

http://sarahskitchenadventures.blogspot.com/

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • ******
  • Posts: 11205
Re: 1990s US Bracket commentary
« Reply #669 on: June 22, 2008, 11:43:25 AM »
Trekkies VS Happiness


Trekkies

This documentary film by Roger Nygard about the lives of uber geeks who eat, breathe and sleep Star Trek was a surprising upbeat breath of fresh air. I have never been one to understand the devotion required to learn Klingon or to write a homoerotic story of Captain Kirk and Mr Spock, but I do understand the love that is obvious between the fans and the actors/creators of this franchise. I fully expected to find these people pathetic and in need of a life, but instead, what I found was a wonderful give and take between them. There is a real love and appreciation for the obsessions that these Trekkies/Trekkers bring to the table - even more important - there is a lot of respect flowing between both groups. I found James Doohan's particular story of his interaction with a suicidal fan powerful and moving. While it might not be for me - these people have created a real community - and shelter in the storm perhaps as (unfortunately) a lot of them would have a difficult time finding acceptance out there in the "normal" world.
Technically - this doc was nothing special - a series of talking heads and slice of life vignettes of the fans interspersed with the same of the creators/actors. Hosted by Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar of The Next Generation), it's strength lies in its message and the very sympathetic portrayal of some very odd people.

Happiness

Happiness, by Todd Solondz, is a narrative film that follows the lives of 3 sisters and people around them. In short, Solondz creates no truly redeeming characters and brings up some unsettling subject matter- among them child molestation, murder, rape, loneliness, despair...the list goes on. In the midst of all this - Solondz creates some darkly comic moments but through it all - I was never quite comfortable laughing. The performances are deep and layered and quite good, especially Dylan Baker as the child molesting, pedophile therapist and Jane Adams as one of the sisters who is NEVER lucky in love.
For me, this film brought to mind the deep sumptuous colors of Douglas Sirk and also Sirk's twisted vision of suburban america - all is not well out here in what is supposed to be the safe and secure suburbs of New Jersey - danger, unhappiness, loneliness lurk just around the corner, preying even on the little children. No one seems to find any closure or moves any closer to the happiness seemingly promised in the title. Solondz seems to enjoy dumping more and more pain on his characters who never look to fight back at their circumstances - they take whatever comes their way.


I know for most of you, this seems like a slam dunk, an easy choice - Happiness is a film geek's dream - it's darkly disturbing, it has a lush look and great performances but it's also unapologetic and cavalier with some very dark material. It made me uncomfortable and I am pretty sure that's what Solondz's intention was.
Trekkies made me feel good. It gave me hope where Happiness took it away and I spent a good portion of last night before I went to sleep and this morning when I awoke wondering how I was going to justify sending such a downer of a film on to the next round when my heart was with the documentary about the geeks but in the end - the choice is obvious - Happiness's twisted vision unfortunately will stay with me longer than the inspiring hopefulness that is Trekkies and that makes it the better film (not my favorite between them) and so it is with a heavy heart that I send Happiness on to the next round.
Hey, nice marmot!

 

love