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Author Topic: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut  (Read 10333 times)

Basil

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2007, 11:01:39 PM »
I can't handle half stars.

I continue to be entertained by how much you guys disagree, or at least bring up different points, but ultimately end up with similar ratings.  Especially Michael Clayton and Rendition.
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Adam

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2007, 09:06:29 AM »
But we have different ratings on both Clayton and Rendition, don't we?

I came up with the half stars idea and Matty was on board... it was prompted by movies like 3:10 To Yuma which I really liked until the end... can't give it 4 stars because the ending is so bad, but don't want to give it 3 because, hell, I gave Disturbia 3 stars. Now, of course, Disturbia 'should' have been just a 2.5 movie. I just like having a bit more wiggle room with the star ratings, though all they do is basically give me a headache.
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Basil

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2007, 09:11:32 AM »
Different, but only by a half star. I would guess, though, that if you hadn't switched to half stars, there would have been a full star difference.  I don't mind it, it just gives me a headache as well.
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Adam

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2007, 11:32:18 AM »
Well, at least with Rendition, I thought Matty pretty much gave it a 2.5 star review... could have been 3, sure... but he basically said it wasn't terrible. Which isn't very glowing.
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Basil

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2007, 12:47:31 PM »
It really makes no difference. I don't think anyone determines what you guys thought of a film just by looking at the ratings.
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pixote

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2007, 03:48:48 PM »
I didn't think the Rendition review went that well, I'm afraid.  Often it seems that when one of the critics come into a review ready to pounce (in this case, Adam), it throws the ensuing discussion out of whack, with the other critic doing a lot of hedging, and a lot of time wasted gauging the relative amount of agreement or disagreement in the conversation:

  • "We're not disagreeing with each other."
  • "No, I know. I'm agreeing. I'm agreeing."
  • "I agree with you, though."
  • "I think, again, we're arguing about how bad this movie is, only in different ways."

The lowpoint, for me, was the following exchange, with Adam being a wee bit dismissive of Matty's point-of-view (the transcript doesn't quite capture the I'm-right-you're-wrong-end-of-discussion tone):

    Matty: "I thought it was pretty taut."
    Adam:  "No, not at all."

Also, as long as I'm nit-picking (which, to be clear, is all this is), I sensed a certain discomfort (as in the Sicko review) in discussing a movie that has a clear political point-of-view.  (It's clear I'm going to have trouble articulating my point here, but I'll try...)  I guess, for starters, I think it'd be valuable to challenge the (seemingly shared) assumption that "propaganda" is necessarily a bad thing in a movie.  Matty, for instance, casually dissed Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (by association), which made me wonder if he's actually seen the movie or if he was just tapping into a conventional, derogatory, and ill-conceived notion of "Capracorn" ...

I just leave it there for now, except to add that I haven't seen Rendition and have no plans to do so.

Oh, and to end on a postive note, Hedwig was an inspired choice in the Top 5.  It probably would have just missed the cut on my list, but like Adam I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it.  (edit: Wait, I forgot that I'm mad at Matty for not including Looking for Richard like I predicted he would.  Not that I've seen it myself — always meant to — but a documentary about theater seemed like a good choice for him after including Pennebaker's Moon Over Broadway a few weeks back.)

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« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 04:00:08 PM by pixote »
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Adam

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2007, 04:22:00 PM »
I think you are reading into some things that just aren't really there. As in, Matty was in no way dissing Mr. Smith Goes To Washington (which I'm fairly certain we've both seen and liked), nor was I "dismissing" him when I told him it wasn't very "taut." "No, not at all" means "No, *I* didn't see it that way at all" (I guess I just assume everyone knows that) and it's not as if Matty was in any way offended. That's how discussions/arguments go. We're not going to validate every point the other makes before responding to the contrary.

As for the "hedging" and "gauging," I'm not sure what one would expect when two people don't discuss their reactions to a film before sitting down for a review and, as a result, have to 'figure it out' as the review goes on. That element of surprise may make for some wasted time in the review, but it's also part of what keeps it spirited and engaging -- at least for us.

I actually feel like we've beaten the propaganda issue to death on this show over the last year, especially with the Silents Marathon, so I don't generally see the need to get into the finer points of it every time it comes up. Propaganda is fine. Propaganda masquerading as something "fair and balanced" is not. In my opinion. Any time I'm being beaten to death with a message, I'm going to recoil... unless it's clear that the whole film is about hammering home that message and makes no bones about it, as in the case of Sicko.

And let me just be perfectly clear... that's *my* position. If you or anyone else reacts to screenwriters and directors getting on soapboxes rather than letting their audience get the message for themselves, that's totally fine. It's just not my usual critical reaction.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 04:38:50 PM by Adam »
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Dracula

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2007, 05:38:24 PM »
I'm thinking Henry V and Bob Roberts should be heading for the penalty box
Worth dying for
Worth killing for
Worth going to hell for
Amen

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Adam

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2007, 05:41:17 PM »
My entire top 5 list should be in the penalty box. (I'm disappointed with my list, obviously.) That said though... Bob Roberts has come up a total of 3 times previously in 182 shows, and the last one was show #157... before that #90 and before that #9. Can you really say I've worn that pick out, especially when you consider not every listener has heard all 182 shows? The penalty box is really intended for movies that are coming up consistently over a fairly short period of time.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 05:51:25 PM by Adam »
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Basil

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Re: #183: Gone Baby Gone / Rendition / Top 5 Actor-Turned-Director Debut
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2007, 06:11:33 PM »
Henry V has been 7 different Top 5s. Your call, but I think we all know you guys like it. The best part about the Top 5 is hearing about movies I normally wouldn't watch but you consider among the best in a certain category.
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